Leave means leave: Has Boris betrayed us over fishing?

[Nick]

There are a number of reasons people voted Brexit. Trade clearly has been a failure. We swapped free excess to the largest market on the planet and replaced it with Australia. That is barely an increase of 1% GDP whilst half empty wagons are sent back to France. And of course this article was on fishing, a market that is really tiny in the UK, and a market in which fishermen need to sell their catch to the continent in order to make ends meat.

Nonetheless I see from your response, that is a small sacrifice to make in order to "protect" our borders from EU workers. Perhaps we might have some control here. But need I remind you, non EU migrants are making record number crossings to enter the UK illegally from France and France has no obligation to stop that since the UK is no longer in the EU. We have a crisis in some sectors, most notably in transport, farming and care but to some extent warehousing because we sent everyone home and now nobody wants to come back for only a three month visa. Our trade deal with India may well mean an influx of Indian workers replacing Eastern European workers to tackle this issue and then we go full circle on uncontrolled immigration again. Do you think EU workers really stole jobs given job vacancies are at record figures but unemployment remains high? It seems to me the notion EU workers had they were simply doing jobs the UK workers weren't prepared to do rings true given we are having a healthcare crisis and and produce farmers are having to throw away good stock because there isn't anyone to pick the tomato off the vine. Brexit is a failure. It is that simple. We replace control with fuckups and the only fix is to make deals with the EU. Even the protocol requires good will from the EU given we signed up to frozen sausages being checked in the Irish Sea and now we see the mistake of doing so.

The Tories are a joke. The EU is growing and soon we will be begging to return to the club in a few decades time just so we have some influence in the world. We threw away our rebate of this notion of sovereignty and this article just shows you what sovereignty really means. f**k all. Also, we have tariffs on steal by the US which the EU no longer have given just how insignificant our market actually is. Nobody was going to beg to trade with us as shown by the only sole deal we have made with a market a third our size. Another Leave lie comes to roost it seems.

Trade a failure? The U.K. economy is above pre covid levels, that is hardly a failure. 

[Thomas]

Ah, Thomas. Yes, I remember you. The Independence Brexiteer who will be fast tracked back to Brussels days after you have been unshackled by Westminster.

you remember wrong. I voted remain in 2016 , not brexit , but argued demcoracy must be enacted and not shat upon as you and your labour party wished.

The rest of your post is more re running years old referendum arguments you put to your beloved uk public in a free and fair vote in 2016 , and they said no , and voted leave.

Im sorry you dont like democracy , but there you go. get starmer elected in two years time to take you back in if you are that bitter about it.

[Sheepy]

But just for kicks, exactly how well did Alba do last time?

Building a consensus because as you said yourself, you only see the SNP as a means to an end, it has nothing to do with Scottish independence and hasn't been for years. I wish them luck; they are certainly up against it. Which we have all been many times, I care that they want democracy above all else.  

[B0ycey]

Brexiters dont need to see anything.

What about the lies told to scotland to keep us in the yookay in 2014? No mention of any of that , while we are told to shut up jock and eat yer porridge , you urnae getting any more referendums.

....but the english remainers are again demading brexit is either overturned  , or we are tied to the eu at any cost , and that brexiters must now accept brussells rule and listen to remoaners whinging?

Ah, Thomas. Yes, I remember you. The Independence Brexiteer who will be fast tracked back to Brussels days after you have been unshackled by Westminster. If you must know, I couldn't give a shit whether Scotland gains their independence given it is a quick and easy way for me to gain my EU rights back. You on the other hand are in a quagmire. You are either ruled by Johnson or Leyen as you have the most Pro EU leader in Sturgeon as a role model to look up to. But just for kicks, exactly how well did Alba do last time? Seems Scots second choice was the even more hippy Greens than Salmond, but I guess as a Scot Conservative you are in a bit of a pickle aren't you. You are just too right wing compared to your brothers and sisters.

Even so Thomas, my post wasn't aimed at Scotland. It was aimed at Brexit. The UK is out and all I am doing is pointing out the way things are. This thread was about fishing and as a Scot I can only assume your remember what happened to one of their vessels in France. The truth is if we can't sell our fish, we may as well not catch them and that is the whole reason why licenses have been given back to the EU fleet. Brexit was never about freedom. It was about returning freedom back. Or do you disagree?

[Thomas]

. And Brexiteers need to see the clusterfuck for what it was. Brexit was a scam and none of the promises the Leave Campaign gave us, from NHS funding to trade deals, Northern Ireland and sovereignty came to light. We are weaker for Brexit and only Covid has masked just what a f**k up it really was.

Brexiters dont need to see anything.

What about the lies told to scotland to keep us in the yookay in 2014? No mention of any of that , while we are told to shut up jock and eat yer porridge , you urnae getting any more referendums.

....but the english remainers are again demading brexit is either overturned  , or we are tied to the eu at any cost , and that brexiters must now accept brussells rule and listen to remoaners whinging?

The 1707 union was a fucking scam , the english have watched what thier elite have done to us over these past 300 years , our country being ruled by a foreign elite in another nation to our utter ruination , and simply didnt want the same thing happening to them , a foreign elite in another country ruling england , and voted accordingly.

I respect them for it , and wish the scottish nation was full of people with a similar spine .

If you think brexit was all about the englishman having a few quid more in his pocket , or believing in lying politicians promises , you dont know people very well.

[Sheepy]

Orban signed up to the things he is now rebelling against. In any case, the punishment isn't ejection from the EU but the holdup of money. And it should be said Hungary isn't leaving the EU any time soon. So this isn't even a problem for the EU but Hungary.

Nonetheless I will say one thing for the EU. It isn't totalitarian given it is a union of concensus. You can't do anything unless all 27 members agree. And that is laymen to say how can that be defined as totalitarian to you? Perhaps look at the Lords. A chamber of unelected peers who can change the law for any reason they like and are accountable to nobody. That sounds more totalitarian to me.

I guess he wasn't having the EU pull the wool over his eyes then. I dunno forcing mass immigration on whole nations under the guise of migration seems pretty totalitarian.
Especially when 96% of your voters say enough is enough, I would say the 4% were skating on very thin ice personally

[B0ycey]

I have heard it all before from you totalitarian types Boycey it doesn't bother me what propaganda you spout on behalf of the EU pretending you have some sort of grip on the reality. Viktor is a pain in the EU's side, he isn't my problem. Tough luck. I don't see the populists panicking or fretting over it, we will have our day yet.

Orban signed up to the things he is now rebelling against. In any case, the punishment isn't ejection from the EU but the holdup of money. And it should be said Hungary isn't leaving the EU any time soon. So this isn't even a problem for the EU but Hungary.

Nonetheless I will say one thing for the EU. It isn't totalitarian given it is a union of concensus. You can't do anything unless all 27 members agree. And that is laymen to say how can that be defined as totalitarian to you? Perhaps look at the Lords. A chamber of unelected peers who can change the law for any reason they like and are accountable to nobody. That sounds more totalitarian to me.

[Sheepy]

Someone should tell Sheepy, he is a sheep, doesn't know what he is talking about especially given we have left the EU. What you are seeing now is what freedom actually is. Concessions to enter other sovereign states markets.

There is no such thing a total Libertarianism in a capitalist economy. Or not in a social contract in any case. If a state exists, so do laws and rules. All a trade deal means is trying to work out how rules can work in each others markets. And that is laymen to say Concessions.

I have heard it all before from you totalitarian types Boycey it doesn't bother me what propaganda you spout on behalf of the EU pretending you have some sort of grip on the reality. Viktor is a pain in the EU's side, he isn't my problem. Tough luck. I don't see the populists panicking or fretting over it, we will have our day yet.

[B0ycey]

Somebody tell Boycey we haven't left we still cannot protect our own borders or even make our own rules who can and cannot fish in our waters, for gawds sake.

Someone should tell Sheepy, he is a sheep, doesn't know what he is talking about especially given we have left the EU. What you are seeing now is what freedom actually is. Concessions to enter other sovereign states markets.

There is no such thing a total Libertarianism in a capitalist economy. Or not in a social contract in any case. If a state exists, so do laws and rules. All a trade deal means is trying to work out how rules can work in each others markets. And that is laymen to say Concessions.

[B0ycey]

Reading the room comes easily for me, the EU isn't growing in fact its mainstay Germany is facing a deepening financial crisis somewhat hidden behind Covid and Macron can only win by cheating, the Russians have openly said enough is enough and they are willing to face a ground offensive. So maybe in your dreamworld you see it differently, but like any psychological battle keeping your marbles when everyone else has lost theirs is paramount. They have two more years to crush the electorate then after that it is democracy versus full on fascism.

Jeez! Please research what you write. Germany growth forecast in 2022 is 4.2%. And Russia isn't invading Ukraine. That is Western propaganda. They have said numerous times they aren't invading and haven't in seven years. Why would they do so now? They are training on their border which is their right to do so. But even so, if Russia was a threat, which I guess to some extent they are, then it makes sense for the EU to strengthen their defence capacity don't you think?

As I have said earlier, the EU has become more united since Brexit. Sure you have Obran bringing "anti gay" laws in and Poland are trying to weaken ECJ influence, but neither country want to leave the EU and the EU isn't throwing them out. Also money talks. The sanctions for this is EU money and should both countries want their full quota of cash, they will yield and instead just be a pain in the ass with their vetos. But even so all of Eastern Europe aren't rebelling against strengthen EU ties and are more concerned about minor issues like gay rights. So I suspect the EU will just give concessions on certain things to enhance its global strength which is the overall aim of the project.

[Sheepy]

Yeah if you read the room George Orwell ain't far wrong is he?

Somebody tell Boycey we haven't left we still cannot protect our own borders or even make our own rules who can and cannot fish in our waters, for gawds sake. 

[B0ycey]

Yeah if you read the room George Orwell ain't far wrong is he?

In terms of federation states, he is completely right. And perhaps he is right that the UK will turn into Air Strip One. And that is laymen to say we are going to be Americas bitch. Or we might rejoin the EU and share the voice with everyone else. Besides, I am not saying we are returning to the EU soon. Only that the Remain voice grows everytime Brexiteers die off and if the EU does grow into the entity and vision that Macron hopes, why wouldn't we return cap in hand in the future?

[cromwell]

Well I agree Westminster is having a party. What are we at now? 14? But even so, what do you mean time is on "our side". The problems of leaving Brexit are out there now. We have a labor shortage, an Irish border problem and EU trade, our largest export market, is down 14%. That isn't even going towards the fact that the EU is heading towards federation, which you might not care about as you like being a small fish is a pond full of sharks, but even so the EU global influence is growing, the US are singing their tune towards them not us and our history isn't going to stop us having to bow to them in the future. Read the room Sheepy. Time is on the EUs side.

Yeah if you read the room George Orwell ain't far wrong is he?

[Sheepy]

Well I agree Westminster is having a party. What are we at now? 14? But even so, what do you mean time is on "our side". The problems of leaving Brexit are out there now. We have a Labour shortage, and Irish border problem and EU trade, our largest export market is down 14%. That isn't even going towards the fact that the EU is heading towards federation, which you might not care about as you like being a small fish is a pond full of sharks, but even so the EU global influence is growing, the US are signing their tune to them not us and our history isn't going to stop us having to bow to them. Read the room Sheepy.

Reading the room comes easily for me, the EU isn't growing in fact its mainstay Germany is facing a deepening financial crisis somewhat hidden behind Covid and Macron can only win by cheating, the Russians have openly said enough is enough and they are willing to face a ground offensive. So maybe in your dreamworld you see it differently, but like any psychological battle keeping your marbles when everyone else has lost theirs is paramount. They have two more years to crush the electorate then after that it is democracy versus full on fascism. 

[B0ycey]

Nice try, but one way or another we will have our freedom from the EU and the Westminster party. Like I keep telling you time is on our side we ain't panicking the EU and the Westminster party are.

Well I agree Westminster is having a party. What are we at now? 14? But even so, what do you mean time is on "our side". The problems of leaving Brexit are out there now. We have a labor shortage, an Irish border problem and EU trade, our largest export market, is down 14%. That isn't even going towards the fact that the EU is heading towards federation, which you might not care about as you like being a small fish is a pond full of sharks, but even so the EU global influence is growing, the US are singing their tune towards them not us and our history isn't going to stop us having to bow to them in the future. Read the room Sheepy. Time is on the EUs side.