Is anyone surprised? Ukraine invaded

[Sampanviking]

Mark your diaries everybody.
Uncle Joe says the war in Ukraine is scheduled to start on Wednesday.
Clearly he has made the decision that it will.
The Great thing in controlling the global media of course is that he can very happily start it himself, blame the Russians and nobody will be allowed to become any the wiser...

[Sheepy]

To be honest Cromwell, I genuinely think such an action is needed for leaders kn the West to see what a clusterfuck this is. We already had Cuba which in the end Russia didn't militarise the island with nukes. And now America can't see an irony on what they are doing here. You either are able to enact your sovereign security despite your neighbours or you're not. If Cuba couldn't have Russian nukes, I cannot understand why Ukraine can have NATO hardware within their territory. Anyone with half a brain can understand why Russia are pissed here. And as you say if Mexico sign a defence pact with either Russia or China we will perhaps finally wake our leaders up.

Your leaders don't give a flying one about you, never have, get your head around that for a start and they all agree on that, whoever you vote for. Basically, they find you nothing more than pests who might not agree with their own agendas. So, they have to lie constantly so you don't find out. 

[B0ycey]

TBF T00ts I wouldn't trust Vlad as far as I could throw him, however imagine Mexico suddenly coming in to a military partnership with China and Russia and see the reaction.

To be honest Cromwell, I genuinely think such an action is needed for leaders kn the West to see what a clusterfuck this is. We already had Cuba which in the end Russia didn't militarise the island with nukes. And now America can't see an irony on what they are doing here. You either are able to enact your sovereign security despite your neighbours or you're not. If Cuba couldn't have Russian nukes, I cannot understand why Ukraine can have NATO hardware within their territory. Anyone with half a brain can understand why Russia are pissed here. And as you say if Mexico sign a defence pact with either Russia or China we will perhaps finally wake our leaders up.

[Sampanviking]

The way I am reading it is Putin wants and needs to invade if only to prove to his countrymen that once again he is the world's strong man, but beneath it all is a need not to be found guilty of starting it. He is searching for enough rhetoric/reasons to justify him setting off the first missile. Essentially he seems cowardly. Everything he does is under cover and hidden from view as if this protects him. A sad little man with a huge ego, sly and cunning with it.

No Toots totally disagree and your assessment is just a pantomime caricature, of the sort put out by the MSM.
The only people people that seem desperate for a war to start are in the US and UK as these are the ones that are actively trying to shape public opinion to be ready for a conflict. No one else is saying these things, certainly not the Russians. Just to reiterate, Russia has made no threats, no territorial claims or undertaken any media vilification campaign against Ukraine, above what has been consistently said since 2014.

Here is a question that nobody on the Western side will answer: How any of these supposed 130,000 Russian troops are actually based within one hundred miles of the Ukrainian border?
Here is another: How many Russian troops are actually deployed in the field, along the Ukrainian border in positions conducive to launching an imminent offensive?
Why are there no satellite images of these deployed forces?

Did you read the words of Ukrainian President Zelensky yesterday - "if Western powers had any firm evidence of an impending invasion, he had yet to see it."

Did you hear about Liz Truss telling Lavrov that the British Government would never accept Rostov on Don or Voroznoz as Russian territory and having to be urgently corrected by the UK ambassador to Russia who was sitting next to her

If Biden is trying to save his presidency by creating a JFK Moment for himself, the incompetence of his administration is blowing it for him big time.
The US has created a fake crisis and its administration is running around like headless chickens and having to reach ever more shrill and overblown levels of hysteria to sustain the narrative.
Putin must be looking on with a mix of disbelief and hilarity of the incompetence of the way the project is being handled and cannot believe the gift he has been handed.
Why would he bother to invade under these conditions? The US and UK and doing plenty of damage to Ukraine and the credibility of NATO all by themselves and as the famous quote says "Never interrupt an enemy when he is busy making a mistake"

The Russians have seized the opportunity to present a diplomatic initiative to achieve their security objectives and this is now being discussed seriously, when had the UK and US not started this ridiculous spectacle, such an initiative would be dead on delivery.

As of today it looks as though the West will end up having to make massive concessions for no obvious benefit, while Russia will gain those benefits for next to no costs, thanks to a policy initiative that is not even of their making. Seriously, you could not make this s**t up!

[cromwell]

The way I am reading it is Putin wants and needs to invade if only to prove to his countrymen that once again he is the world's strong man, but beneath it all is a need not to be found guilty of starting it. He is searching for enough rhetoric/reasons to justify him setting off the first missile. Essentially he seems cowardly. Everything he does is under cover and hidden from view as if this protects him. A sad little man with a huge ego, sly and cunning with it.

TBF T00ts I wouldn't trust Vlad as far as I could throw him, however imagine Mexico suddenly coming in to a military partnership with China and Russia and see the reaction.

[T00ts]

The way I am reading it is Putin wants and needs to invade if only to prove to his countrymen that once again he is the world's strong man, but beneath it all is a need not to be found guilty of starting it. He is searching for enough rhetoric/reasons to justify him setting off the first missile. Essentially he seems cowardly. Everything he does is under cover and hidden from view as if this protects him. A sad little man with a huge ego, sly and cunning with it.

[cromwell]

Another day and another imminent Invasion warning  (yawn)

Taken from the unusual German Phrase book "Bidenblinkenwolf"
A wolf that is believed to be in the vicinity and responsible for panic but which never actually is seen or takes any stock.....

Oh do be fair it's not Wednesday yet,it's been said it's happening Wednesday I reckon because it's half day closing ( remember that?   ) catch everyone by surprise.

No heroes in any of this but madness all round....business as usual.

[Sheepy]

It needs to managed with neither side losing face. I just hope sense reigns.

What sense might that be? we have seen how much sense reigns all over the media and governments in the last two years, with the whole world controlled by a very few people using fear and psychology so I wouldn't bet on any sense now. 

[T00ts]

It needs to managed with neither side losing face. I just hope sense reigns.

[Streetwalker]

I dont know . Cant see much in this myself but World leaders trying to set a new order in the photo line ups . The Russians don't want to start  firing on fellow Russians which is what many of them see Ukrainian's to be . There is no will for a civil war on either side 
Putin doesn't want to see his investments in the west strangled with sanctions and by Invading Ukraine will only do what he is complaining about .
 That being bringing the NATO border up to the Russian one . Then he definitely will have a who blinks first situation .Just cant see that Putin would put himself in that position .

They have made their point, if Ukraine joins any Western alliance being military or trade blocs they will not be best pleased . 
World leaders have all said their bit with most looking a bit stronger this week than they did last . Time to go home , stand down the troops and pour a large Vodka whilst everyone's a winner as  from here on in there will only be losers .

[Sampanviking]

Another day and another imminent Invasion warning  (yawn)

Taken from the unusual German Phrase book "Bidenblinkenwolf"
A wolf that is believed to be in the vicinity and responsible for panic but which never actually is seen or takes any stock.....

[Sheepy]

I guess at some point we will get the real reasons for it all, no doubt something being buried behind it which could be several major things that need covering at the moment. 

[Sheepy]

Interesting to hear the Chinese take on this via Global Times

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202202/1251577.shtml

It makes a number of salient points, no:1 of which is the view that the US is deliberately trying; through its increasingly shrill rhetoric, to actually provoke a conflict between Russia and Ukraine in order to bring wayward European members of NATO back firmly into line and to therefore shore up the US's hegemonic position in Europe.

This notion certainly puts Mr Macron's initiative into sharper focus and explains why the US/UK media is giving him no support whatsoever in his actions.
Mr Macron is afterall one of those most in favour of Europe developing its own Independent Security Structures outside of NATO.

That will be the Imperialists at it again then. 

[Sampanviking]

Interesting to hear the Chinese take on this via Global Times

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202202/1251577.shtml

It makes a number of salient points, no:1 of which is the view that the US is deliberately trying; through its increasingly shrill rhetoric, to actually provoke a conflict between Russia and Ukraine in order to bring wayward European members of NATO back firmly into line and to therefore shore up the US's hegemonic position in Europe.

This notion certainly puts Mr Macron's initiative into sharper focus and explains why the US/UK media is giving him no support whatsoever in his actions.
Mr Macron is afterall one of those most in favour of Europe developing its own Independent Security Structures outside of NATO.

[Sheepy]

The whole narrative is descending into pantomime territory - Real "behind you" stuff
The fact remains is that Public Opinion exists in Russia too and you cannot take a country to war successfully if it has not been primed and public opinion shaped.
There is no such campaign to do so in the Russian media, no historical territorial claims against Ukraine, no dodgy dossiers and no claims of Ukrainian malfeasance against Russia.
The only people pushing this invasion narrative are the US and UK.

We also have the BBC continuing its usual practice of dodgy maps
The standard map now on the BBC website shows an area the size of western Europe and without any scale.
Supposed Russian units are shown with massive markers that seem to occupy vast swathes.
In reality these troops such as numbers there may be, are in bases at least a hundred miles away from the Ukrainian border and often several hundred.
If Britain was shown in that scale and with position markers of that size, we would look as though the entire Island was a concreted over fortress!

The crazy world of international politics Sampan, now the Chinese reckon they are on the side of the Argentinians, wouldn't that mean they were against the Russian and Crimea?
I guess they are not thinking the people of Taiwan should get a vote then.