Is anyone surprised? Ukraine invaded

[Good old]

The build up was initially a military exercise. The increase of troops recently was due to a declared cooperative exercise with Belarus over a year ago. And now Putin is keeping them there to piss off Nato. I am waiting for this invasion that is like two months late.

As for Crimea, it was of strategic importance not to fall into Western hands. It was defacto Russian given it was Russian speaking hence why the referendum was such a clear win for Russia.

Well that's Putins story. He has proved one thing to NATO, and that is he can put together a pretty substantial piece of military muscle, at any given time. As it's extremely unlikely that NATO, is planning an invasion of Russian territory any time soon. The question has to be so what is his point in massing a vast army on his border?
Crimea, was annexed, it was Ukrainian territory, regardless of the fact that 65% of people living there speaking and being of Russian decent . Ukraine, is either sovereign within its borders or it is not.  That's already been put into question by Putin, the only question now is will he enlarge on that.
When he makes his mind up which way he is going . We will all have a much better picture of what to do in any future interaction with him and his country. 

[B0ycey]

Russia, has already invaded Ukraine. What Putin, toys with is showing how easy he could take the whole country . Why not believe him.?  Putin, says none of his big military build up is a threat to Ukraine, well only he can prove that.  What we or our allies think he will do is not the point, the point will be made by Putin, one way or the other.

The build up was initially a military exercise. The increase of troops recently was due to a declared cooperative exercise with Belarus over a year ago. And now Putin is keeping them there to piss off Nato. I am waiting for this invasion that is like two months late.

As for Crimea, it was of strategic importance not to fall into Western hands. It was defacto Russian given it was Russian speaking hence why the referendum was such a clear win for Russia.

[B0ycey]

You have misunderstood me. When I say Europe, I really do NOT mean the EU. Europe is much farther reaching than the bureaucrats in Brussels. Stuff the EU.

If it help Barry, Poland and Ukraine love us. Any nation of significance like Germany and France don't. You might not like the EU but continental Europe does and if you sour the relationship with the EU, you dont get a special relationship outside Eastern Europe.

[Sheepy]

Take it from me I have a long memory and I haven't forgotten all the Irish that were on here trying to make friends and sort it out amongst ourselves until driven off by the Europhiles. 

[B0ycey]

This is just words Thomas. Russia was more than happy to talk to the UK until Truss decided to be rude to them. But the backseat approach isn't down to Russia but that Macron and Scholz are trusted by the Yanks to talk to Putin and Johnson is relegated to talking to Zelensky.

[Good old]

Russia, has already invaded Ukraine. What Putin, toys with is showing how easy he could take the whole country . Why not believe him.?  Putin, says none of his big military build up is a threat to Ukraine, well only he can prove that.  What we or our allies think he will do is not the point, the point will be made by Putin, one way or the other. 

[Barry]

Totally agree Barry. But Europe doesn't really trust the UK given Brexit and with Johnson in the helm. I think everyone is in agreement that Johnson and Biden are calling wolf here, but even so there was a time when it would have been the UK having a leading role in negotiations over something like this and today it is Macron and Scholz because nobody trust us with something so sensitive. Russia really do think we are an island of clowns right now and had no hesitation taking the piss out of Truss for not knowing districts of Russia despite being Foreign Secretary.

You have misunderstood me. When I say Europe, I really do NOT mean the EU. Europe is much farther reaching than the bureaucrats in Brussels. Stuff the EU.

[Thomas]

Totally agree Barry. But Europe doesn't really trust the UK given Brexit and with Johnson in the helm. I think everyone is in agreement that Johnson and Biden are calling wolf here, but even so there was a time when it would have been the UK having a leading role in negotiations over something like this and today it is Macron and Scholz because nobody trust us with something so sensitive. Russia really do think we are an island of clowns right now and had no hesitation taking the piss out of Truss for not knowing districts of Russia despite being Foreign Secretary.

The trouble with this analysis is of course your selective amnesia.

it wasnt too long ago that  the russians were mocking the blair labour party adminsitration over things like iraq and wmd .

Putin taunts Blair: Is Saddam sitting in a bunker ready to blow the whole place up with WMD?


From Rosemary Bennett and Robin Shepherd in Moscow
Wednesday April 30 2003, 1.00am, The Times
PRESIDENT Putin scuppered Tony Blair's efforts to repair Anglo-Russian relations after the Iraq war by challenging him and President Bush to uncover weapons of mass destruction to justify the conflict.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/putin-taunts-blair-is-saddam-sitting-in-a-bunker-ready-to-blow-the-whole-place-up-with-wmd-hrnk0mjmst3

That is the problem you have with the uk electorate boycey. The idea the russians are mocking a uk government official because they are seen as incompetent is just the latest waffle from the left. Keir starmer and his new labour would indeed too be nothing more than poodles for washington and the democrat warmongers. Similarly they  , like thier hero blair , would be mocked internationally for virtually the same reasons , the brit poodle on the yank leash.

The russians have been mocking the uk government going back to the cold war. Certainly what passes as uk foreign policy since 1997 , if not before , under both labour and tory has been by and large puppets of washington .Blair was famous for being seen as bushs poodle .

Scholts is receiving a lot of grief from the americans over their percetption of him being pro russian  / pro chinese stance . As for macron , you repeatedly mention him as though he is some global political icon looked up to by world leaders , it wasnt that long ago both the yanks aussies and the uk were portraying him as a clown who throws hissy fits when he cant get his own way.

your interpretation of world politics and affairs always comes from the same angle , anti boris anti tory. While some of what you say is acceptable , a lot of your interpretation is as ever blinded by tory and boris hate.

I accept some of what you say , but as ever you overdo it on the boris administration front.

[Sheepy]

Totally agree Barry. But Europe doesn't really trust the UK given Brexit and with Johnson in the helm. I think everyone is in agreement that Johnson and Biden are calling wolf here, but even so there was a time when it would have been the UK having a leading role in negotiations over something like this and today it is Macron and Scholz because nobody trust us with something so sensitive. Russia really do think we are an island of clowns right now and had no hesitation taking the piss out of Truss for not knowing districts of Russia despite being Foreign Secretary.

Feck the EU, we have told them enough times, Europe isn't the EU either. They just think they are.

[Sampanviking]

If somebody don't invade somewhere the Yanks are so fecked I wouldn't hazard a guess how they will find a way out.

They will just make somewhere up

"We knew Russia meant to Invade, we just didn't know where.
Now we do, the tiny Caucasian Republic of Figmentianovska.
Nobody had ever heard of this country before and now because of the cruel Russian Jackboot, no one will ever again......"

[B0ycey]

Maybe it is time the UK seriously considered who it wants a "special relationship" with.
Our European neighbours seem more inviting than a demented old fool.

Totally agree Barry. But Europe doesn't really trust the UK given Brexit and with Johnson in the helm. I think everyone is in agreement that Johnson and Biden are calling wolf here, but even so there was a time when it would have been the UK having a leading role in negotiations over something like this and today it is Macron and Scholz because nobody trust us with something so sensitive. Russia really do think we are an island of clowns right now and had no hesitation taking the piss out of Truss for not knowing districts of Russia despite being Foreign Secretary.

[Barry]

Maybe it is time the UK seriously considered who it wants a "special relationship" with.
Our European neighbours seem more inviting than a demented old fool.

[Sampanviking]

bottom of the barrell stuff now from the yank democrats...

Putin drawing up 'kill list' of gay and ethnic minority Ukrainians ahead of possible invasion, US claims
Russia is drawing up a kill list, with gay and ethnic minority Ukrainians among it, if it were to invade the country, according to the US.
America's ambassador to the UN has issued a warning over a possible "human rights catastrophe" as 200,000 Russian troops and 500 warships are gathered on the border.
Heavy shelling in Ukraine continued on Monday in the heightened tension between Ukrainian forces and Russian-backed separatist rebels in the Donbas region.
Foreign Secretary Liz Truss has warned that a Russian invasion of Ukraine appears "highly likely" despite US President Joe Biden and Russian leader Vladimir Putin tentatively agreeing to hold a crisis summit.
In a warning, Bathsheba Nell Crocker said the US has "credible information that indicates Russian forces are creating lists of identified Ukrainians to be killed or sent to camps following a military occupation".
In a letter to the UN's human rights chief she said "in the past Russian operations have included targeted killings, kidnappings/forced disappearances, unjust detentions, and the use of torture".
Should Russia invade, she says forces "would likely target those who oppose Russian actions".
These would include "Russian and Belarusian dissidents in exile in Ukraine, journalists and anti-corruption activists, and vulnerable populations such as religious and ethnic minorities and LGBTQI+ persons".
The ambassador also claims there is "credible information" to suggest the Russians "will likely use lethal measures to disperse peaceful protests or otherwise counter peaceful exercises of perceived resistance from civilian populations".
Putin's spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, has denied the claim, made to UN human rights chief Michelle Bachelet.
"That is a lie. This is absolute fiction, there is no such list, it is fake," he said.

https://www.gbnews.uk/news/putin-drawing-up-kill-list-of-gay-and-ethnic-minority-ukrainians-ahead-of-possible-invasion-us-claims/230697

Well Blinken was making very unsubtle hints about False Flag provocations directed against "special groups of people" just a few days ago
Now here we are!
If there is any such atrocity in the very near future, we all know who will have been behind it, despite how loudly they howl about Putin.

So if we all have to choose between the welfare of Ukraine and cheap oil and gas, hands up all those that worry first about Ukraine?

[Sheepy]

bottom of the barrell stuff now from the yank democrats...

Putin drawing up 'kill list' of gay and ethnic minority Ukrainians ahead of possible invasion, US claims
Russia is drawing up a kill list, with gay and ethnic minority Ukrainians among it, if it were to invade the country, according to the US.
America's ambassador to the UN has issued a warning over a possible "human rights catastrophe" as 200,000 Russian troops and 500 warships are gathered on the border.
Heavy shelling in Ukraine continued on Monday in the heightened tension between Ukrainian forces and Russian-backed separatist rebels in the Donbas region.
Foreign Secretary Liz Truss has warned that a Russian invasion of Ukraine appears "highly likely" despite US President Joe Biden and Russian leader Vladimir Putin tentatively agreeing to hold a crisis summit.
In a warning, Bathsheba Nell Crocker said the US has "credible information that indicates Russian forces are creating lists of identified Ukrainians to be killed or sent to camps following a military occupation".
In a letter to the UN's human rights chief she said "in the past Russian operations have included targeted killings, kidnappings/forced disappearances, unjust detentions, and the use of torture".
Should Russia invade, she says forces "would likely target those who oppose Russian actions".
These would include "Russian and Belarusian dissidents in exile in Ukraine, journalists and anti-corruption activists, and vulnerable populations such as religious and ethnic minorities and LGBTQI+ persons".
The ambassador also claims there is "credible information" to suggest the Russians "will likely use lethal measures to disperse peaceful protests or otherwise counter peaceful exercises of perceived resistance from civilian populations".
Putin's spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, has denied the claim, made to UN human rights chief Michelle Bachelet.
"That is a lie. This is absolute fiction, there is no such list, it is fake," he said.

https://www.gbnews.uk/news/putin-drawing-up-kill-list-of-gay-and-ethnic-minority-ukrainians-ahead-of-possible-invasion-us-claims/230697

If somebody don't invade somewhere the Yanks are so fecked I wouldn't hazard a guess how they will find a way out.

[Barry]

In a letter to the UN's human rights chief she said [highlight]"in the past Russian operations have included targeted killings, kidnappings/forced disappearances, unjust detentions, and the use of torture".[/highlight]

I see you are well plugged in to GB news. We can't watch it live but now listen on the radio. It's refreshing.

I thought I would quote the above, as the USA should really be reporting themselves to the UN, as they clearly take part in the same activities.
Killing their own citizens in foreign countries.
Rendition.
Gitmo.
Waterboarding and worse.