Is anyone surprised? Ukraine invaded

[cromwell]

I agree, but subjected to what?  Lots of weapons being given to Ukraine?  The media stoking up Putin as the 'bad guy', which will lead to more conflict and maybe war?  Or Ukraine could remain neutral.

I think the Ukraine would be happy to be neutral if Vlad buggered off.

The media stoking up have you read Tass and other state organs?

[Scott777]

The west made grave errors when the Soviet Union disintegrated,but that doesn't mean  ordinary peopleshould be subjected to this.

I agree, but subjected to what?  Lots of weapons being given to Ukraine?  The media stoking up Putin as the 'bad guy', which will lead to more conflict and maybe war?  Or Ukraine could remain neutral.

[Sheepy]

It's not about ethnicity, it's about power.

Always, anyway the more the west screams and shouts the harder he will press on, the more the EU tries to stir the pot he will just make sure there will be no Ukraine to join up. Peace talks in the background are an old Chinese trick, talk about peace for the diplomats while you get on with the job. 

[B0ycey]

Fair play to Lavrov just now. He sees that there is no winners in nuclear war. Certainly not in Europe. Because it isn't so much the power of the bombs but the fallout thereafter. And what I mean from that is if Russia bombed  Europe (or vice versa), you are basically poisoning yourself with radiation sickness by the radioactive rain which in a way is a worse fate than having the bomb drop on you head so completely pyrrhic.

Anyway, who has read 1984? It seems to me we are heading that way. A world of superpowers. This is one of the reasons I am fully supportive of the EU. We think we can punish Russia with sanctions but they will just move their economy to China. So this is my guess for what will happen. Russia and Ukraine will reach a deal and Putin will make sure the world knows this was down to Xi and not the West who he will blame for the conflict. The world will rejoice. They will then move their entire economy to China and send their troops home. The West will then release sanctions on Russia (because don't kid yourself, we need them more than they need us) whilst Russia continue to built their entire economy to China. China with Russia will develop a new payment system that counters Swift. And once Russia no longer relies on the West at all they will impose sanctions on us for NATO aggression and basically destroy our economy. People think Russia is weak. But it has all the oil and gas. So they do actually hold all the cards. So we need to start acting as if the Iron curtain is rebuilt. China are now the leading hegemony superpower right now and people need to wake up to that. I think Russia already see that and rather than playing tough we should behave like China is doing right now and seeking peace and staying out of it.

[T00ts]

A slight change of tack but my grandson is at Eton and there are Russian boys there. I see private schools have now been told that they can no longer accept fees from Russian banks etc. My daughter made the comment to me yesterday that she was unsure how those boys would get home at the end of term or return next term and her thought was it was unwise to set up the next generation with a grudge.

[Sheepy]

We are fortunate that the last time we were invaded was 1066.

Except historically that isn't the last time we were invaded.
 Fortress? We have had 73 invasions since 1066 | UK | News | Express.co.uk

[cromwell]

It's not about ethnicity, it's about power.  Russia ruled Latvia.  Now they are part of NATO.  So why can't other parts of Russia become independent, then join NATO?  That's obviously the agenda.

Look at the history and ask yourself why places like the Baltic states are nervous.
We are fortunate that the last time we were invaded was 1066.
The Poles have been in the unfortunate position of being over run several times,look at the history then come back.

The west made grave errors when the Soviet Union disintegrated,but that doesn't mean  ordinary peopleshould be subjected to this.

[Scott777]

The Baltic states aren't Russians,there were attempts at Russification.

They are much like the Finns,they regained their liberty after WW1,then taken away again in WW2,they joined NATO because they fear Putin,Russia and past history.

Putin looks like he wants to rebuild the old Soviet Union.

It's not about ethnicity, it's about power.  Russia ruled Latvia.  Now they are part of NATO.  So why can't other parts of Russia become independent, then join NATO?  That's obviously the agenda.

[cromwell]

Russia did not say to Ukraine, it's our way or no way, until Ukraine started becoming part of the west.  So again, that's a double standard.  Why can't NATO expand into Russia?  Latvia used to be part of Russia.  Now it's in NATO.

The Baltic states aren't Russians,there were attempts at Russification.

They are much like the Finns,they regained their liberty after WW1,then taken away again in WW2,they joined NATO because they fear Putin,Russia and past history.

Putin looks like he wants to rebuild the old Soviet Union.

[Scott777]

So Russia,has said to Ukraine it's our way or no way. And Latvia is a sovereign state that was only ever under the control of the USSR. Not a part of Russia.

No, Russia said it's neutral or our way.  And Latvia was part of Russian Empire until 1812 or so. "Russian empire now possessed all the territories inhabited by Latvians."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Latvia#Russian_period,_1721/95%E2%80%931915/18

[Good old]

Russia did not say to Ukraine, it's our way or no way, until Ukraine started becoming part of the west.  So again, that's a double standard.  Why can't NATO expand into Russia?  Latvia used to be part of Russia.  Now it's in NATO.

So Russia,has said to Ukraine it's our way or no way. And Latvia is a sovereign state that was only ever under the control of the USSR. Not a part of Russia.

[Scott777]

There is no double standard. For a start the EU/NATO, have not said to Ukraine, it's our way or no way.. Its not NATO that has invaded a sovereign state just to force it out of not wanting to make its own decisions . It's not possible NATO would gradually expand into Russia.The only change in Russia, would only ever be internal, and it wouldn't need NATO.
Putin, is going to dominate Ukraine, that's near to certain. But if he ever was actually concerned by NATO. He will have more reason in future . Not because the west will  be planing to invade him but because , he has made the mistake of playing far to many cards for little gain ,if any .In fact he might think he has  outwitted the west.but it's most likely this will only force the west to take more measures than ever to protect against him.
The west will up its defensive stance, he has awakened the German giant, at last it stirs , because it knows it can not trust him or his motives, he has put his economy under extreme pressure, . Ukraine, can never be truly neutral, it has to live and live by its own will. When Putin ,says neutral he means under the same terms as the Russian people and kept as a potential battle field.

Russia did not say to Ukraine, it's our way or no way, until Ukraine started becoming part of the west.  So again, that's a double standard.  Why can't NATO expand into Russia?  Latvia used to be part of Russia.  Now it's in NATO.

[Good old]

What little trap? I couldn't be any more sure of the truth than you. I saw a picture of the island made into a video with audio in Russian, translated and a report they were all killed for standing their ground. It just didn't sound right.
And being a trusting Christian myself, I trust God, and question everything that men say, as you should.
We have the belt of truth buckled around our waists, don't we, Good Old?

Well you have made  a very obvious show of pleasure in the fact that I took that Scottish,newspaper to be on top of its stories. You wanted to know if it was true. And I posted that report.  I didn't know the exact truth why would I? I merely responded to the possible murder of those men , and you note I fell for it hook line and sinker as if you only set the situation as a trap .It happens in war. Yes you make the point on trust. There are going to be none stories, there are going to be mistaken reports,. But none of it alters the fact that Russian troops are killing Ukrainians , military and civilian, murdering I should say. And that story could so easily have been true. In the circumstances I extend the sentiments I made to all Ukrainian victims of Russian aggression . There are and will be more than enough to warrant passing the sentiment that they all rest in peace.  I notice the Ukrainians are happy to accept the Russian ,story that the men are prisoners ,though them being prisoners is not thought to be confirmed. So not propaganda ,so much as an honest mistake. And that is the truth that we should all know because as you say we have the truth buckled around our waists , don't we Barry..? 

[Barry]

I posted a Scots newspaper report in response. To a request from you as to the truth.I then merely responded to that. An unlikely propaganda rag. It could have been wrong that was always possible.. And I am so glad to hear those people are alive .I make no apology for showing some humanity to the possibility they had died. If I am told in future , that life's have been lost ,I will still RIP them until I know better and celebrate their continued existence.
Now I hope you feel better, thinking you have snared a trusting Christian in your little trap.

What little trap? I couldn't be any more sure of the truth than you. I saw a picture of the island made into a video with audio in Russian, translated and a report they were all killed for standing their ground. It just didn't sound right.
And being a trusting Christian myself, I trust God, and question everything that men say, as you should.
We have the belt of truth buckled around our waists, don't we, Good Old?

[Good old]

You see, the reason I asked the question, was because I smelled a big propaganda rat. And you fell for it, hook line and sinker. Killed them off and RIP'd them.

Do not fear.
They are back from the dead.

https://www.euronews.com/2022/02/28/ukraine-war-snake-island-border-guards-are-alive-and-well-says-ukrainian-navy

I posted a Scots newspaper report in response. To a request from you as to the truth.I then merely responded to that. An unlikely propaganda rag. It could have been wrong that was always possible.. And I am so glad to hear those people are alive .I make no apology for showing some humanity to the possibility they had died. If I am told in future , that life's have been lost ,I will still RIP them until I know better and celebrate their continued existence.
Now I hope you feel better, thinking you have snared a trusting Christian in your little trap.