Can Russia be stopped?

[T00ts]

I repeat putin should withdraw his forces. I dont know how many times i can re say the same thing over and over , but im also asking why this is happening , and im sorry , but the western media slant sounds like guff to me.


Russia's Ukraine invasion may have been preventable

The U.S. refused to reconsider Ukraine's NATO status as Putin threatened war. Experts say that was a huge mistake.



Ukrainians might be paying with their lives for the United States' reckless flirtation with Ukraine as a future NATO member without ever committing to its defense.

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/russia-s-ukraine-invasion-may-have-been-preventable-n1290831?cid=sm_npd_ms_tw_ma

Ok I have read that and it makes a lot of sense. How it really changes anything I am not sure. 

[Thomas]

Just to add to what you have said Thomas.
I can't think you could describe Yanokovich as "pro Russian" he was happy being a neutral and playing both sides for maximum benefit. What he was not, was rabidly anti Russian and this seems to have been enough of a problem for the Victoria Neuland Clique (and Neo-Cons in general) to require a full colour revolution and regime change operation, just a few months before a scheduled Presidential Election.

In terms of democratic values, I posted a video of a former US military senior staffer, making clear that the Ukraine was lower down the list of Corrupt Regimes than is Russia and that the post coup governments have banned multiple opposition parties, banned multiple opposition media outlets and that numerous opposition reporters have been killed.
Guess as long as all the victims are "Pro Russian" it doesn't really count for anything.

ok thanks for that , and i take your point about yanukovich and i am happy to be corrected.

Im reading up on this and still finding a lot out , like many on here i suspect , and the idea this is all about some evil tyrant intent on re establishing the ussr and smothering europe in a second iron curtain seems extremely far fetched to me.

Im sure the truth , like the iraq war , the afghan war and much else will come out eventually , trouble is , if it escalates much more , then none of us will be around to judge events accordingly.

Guess as long as all the victims are "Pro Russian" it doesn't really count for anything.

I know what you mean  .

That term though " pro russian , or russian appeaser", has literally become a meaningless expression in the language of the english like "racist".
Its been so over used ,and widely cast about since at least the scot indy ref , im losing sight of who are the supposed russian bots and kremlin dupes and who arent.

2014 i was the kremlin dupe for wanting scot indy , 2016 it was brexiters , then it was trump and his supporters , and now this .

[Sheepy]

I must be physic, because wait until you see what he is saying now.  

[Sampanviking]

I repeat putin should withdraw his forces. I dont know how many times i can re say the same thing over and over , but im also asking why this is happening , and im sorry , but the western media slant sounds like guff to me.


Russia's Ukraine invasion may have been preventable

The U.S. refused to reconsider Ukraine's NATO status as Putin threatened war. Experts say that was a huge mistake.



Ukrainians might be paying with their lives for the United States' reckless flirtation with Ukraine as a future NATO member without ever committing to its defense.

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/russia-s-ukraine-invasion-may-have-been-preventable-n1290831?cid=sm_npd_ms_tw_ma

I think the Genie is too far out of the bottle to simply try and put it back in.
Primarily because it is too simple to just call this an invasion.
There is plenty of support for the Russians in the East of the Country and the local milita's of Donetsk and Lughansk are doing a lot of the heavy fighting in that corner, (which is where the vast majority of the heavy fighting is actually taking place)
We also know that in areas where the pro Russian separatists were crushed in 2014 before they were able to properly organise, they have reappeared as partisans and often referred to by the Ukrainians as "saboteurs".

When the Russians have taken the bits they want, they will be able to withdraw as they will have plenty of men from the East of the Country to look after security.

[Sampanviking]

Ok i just read your article , dated Feb 10th 2010 , and it appears to be an article of unfounded "claims " of vote rigging without any evidence to back it up as fact.

You then in typical style go onto make this article of unfounded claims as evidence that vote rigging is popular in ukraine wihtout your link containing any.

i direct you to this al jazeera article written 6 days later than yours , feb 16th 2010.
"
Tymoshenko has said that observers from the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) are willing to testify in court about the alleged fraud.
 
However, Joao Soares, the head of the OSCE team of election observers in Ukraine, has denied that his group had any information or evidence of vote-rigging."

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2010/2/16/ukraine-pm-challenges-poll-result

The election observers themselves basically called tuchynov and tymoshenko liars in claiming the elections were rigged.


Nice try trying to de ligitimise yanukovichs election result groo , but another failure. Even if you were correct , and the man rigged the votes , please explain to me what right america had going in to stir up trouble and inflame the situation into an 8 year civil war?

Can you show me any evidence where the world appointed the united states of america as the planets policeman ,judge and jury?

Just to add to what you have said Thomas.
I can't think you could describe Yanokovich as "pro Russian" he was happy being a neutral and playing both sides for maximum benefit. What he was not, was rabidly anti Russian and this seems to have been enough of a problem for the Victoria Neuland Clique (and Neo-Cons in general) to require a full colour revolution and regime change operation, just a few months before a scheduled Presidential Election.

In terms of democratic values, I posted a video of a former US military senior staffer, making clear that the Ukraine was lower down the list of Corrupt Regimes than is Russia and that the post coup governments have banned multiple opposition parties, banned multiple opposition media outlets and that numerous opposition reporters have been killed.
Guess as long as all the victims are "Pro Russian" it doesn't really count for anything.

[Thomas]

 So Putin can re-instate his dream? What about the Ukrainian dream?

I repeat putin should withdraw his forces. I dont know how many times i can re say the same thing over and over , but im also asking why this is happening , and im sorry , but the western media slant sounds like guff to me.


Russia's Ukraine invasion may have been preventable

The U.S. refused to reconsider Ukraine's NATO status as Putin threatened war. Experts say that was a huge mistake.



Ukrainians might be paying with their lives for the United States' reckless flirtation with Ukraine as a future NATO member without ever committing to its defense.

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/russia-s-ukraine-invasion-may-have-been-preventable-n1290831?cid=sm_npd_ms_tw_ma

[T00ts]

Forgot to add my thanks toots. Dont always have time to post . Been a long hard week.

You're welcome. Funnily enough I missed you. Go and have a lie down!  

[Thomas]

. (Welcome back by the way )

Forgot to add my thanks toots. Dont always have time to post . Been a long hard week.

[T00ts]

Toots , im not having a go. Im politely and quietly asking for any evidence to your claims in your previous post.
sorry dont agree. While i unequivocally call for russia to withdraw , surely we are entitled to know what exactly is going on here?

If this escalates ,this isnt a war that can be won , and i for one dont fancy my children being incinerated for another american proxy war.

If we have learned anything over the years , its that people  have to be lied into war.

I think it's just your style of posting it can be a bit daunting. I am the same in that I want Putin to back off but that's not going to happen. Truth? What's that? It seems that everyone's idea of 'truth' is different. All I can see is people are being killed/threatened/made homeless for what? So Putin can re-instate his dream? What about the Ukrainian dream?

[Thomas]

Now hang on a minute Thomas don't have a go

Toots , im not having a go. Im politely and quietly asking for any evidence to your claims in your previous post.

I have been trying to get a handle on Ukraine's past but actually it's irrelevant in my view,

sorry dont agree. While i unequivocally call for russia to withdraw , surely we are entitled to know what exactly is going on here?

If this escalates ,this isnt a war that can be won , and i for one dont fancy my children being incinerated for another american proxy war.

If we have learned anything over the years , its that people  have to be lied into war.

[Thomas]

Vote rigging is very popular over there, didn't you know.

https://www.kyivpost.com/article/content/ukraine-politics/turchynov-vote-rigging-in-favor-of-yanukovych-was-59198.html

The opposition leader who narrowly lost a suspect election, of course as the norm in Eastern block countries, was arrested after the elections.

Ok i just read your article , dated Feb 10th 2010 , and it appears to be an article of unfounded "claims " of vote rigging without any evidence to back it up as fact.

You then in typical style go onto make this article of unfounded claims as evidence that vote rigging is popular in ukraine wihtout your link containing any.

i direct you to this al jazeera article written 6 days later than yours , feb 16th 2010.
"
Tymoshenko has said that observers from the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) are willing to testify in court about the alleged fraud.
 
However, Joao Soares, the head of the OSCE team of election observers in Ukraine, has denied that his group had any information or evidence of vote-rigging."

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2010/2/16/ukraine-pm-challenges-poll-result

The election observers themselves basically called tuchynov and tymoshenko liars in claiming the elections were rigged.


Nice try trying to de ligitimise yanukovichs election result groo , but another failure. Even if you were correct , and the man rigged the votes , please explain to me what right america had going in to stir up trouble and inflame the situation into an 8 year civil war?

Can you show me any evidence where the world appointed the united states of america as the planets policeman ,judge and jury?

[Sheepy]

So your saying there is no invasion and there is no war, its all a figment of our imagination or those nasty west people filming war scenes in Hollywood. The Ukrainian President is an actor after all.

No, he isn't he is a comedian who has done comedy films, where he was voted as President. No where have no I said there is no war? you don't work for the BBC by any chance?

[T00ts]

Sorry im a bit lost on here having been off the forum for a week now toots , but where is the evidence for the above?

Further , going back to ukraine , didnt the pro russian former leader victor yanukovich win 49 % of the vote  , but because the yanks didint agree with this  , they helped encourage the ukrainians to topple him leading to 8 years of civil war of which we are obviously seeing things escalate?

The more im reading into this western media slant of a simple good guy bad guy story with the accompanying evil villain , the more murkier things are becoming.

Now hang on a minute Thomas don't have a go. You will note that I am constantly asking questions. I have been trying to get a handle on Ukraine's past but actually it's irrelevant in my view, because the only thing that currently matters is what the people of Ukraine really want right now. It would seem to me that an invasion by Putin or anyone else is the last thing on their agenda. If they were so pro Russian wouldn't they be out there welcoming the army tanks like the Russian soldiers were told to expect? Putin recognised just 2 areas of Ukraine but then has proceeded to attack what looks like it will be the whole country.
Are you going to tell me now that poor Putin is sadly misunderstood and should be my first choice for a grandfather - all smiles and cuddles? The man has always frightened me.  As yet I can see absolutely nothing that condones his current activities after lying for weeks that his collection of troops were harmless. Perhaps you have knowledge to add that might help. (Welcome back by the way  )

[Groo]

Sorry im a bit lost on here having been off the forum for a week now toots , but where is the evidence for the above?

Further , going back to ukraine , didnt the pro russian former leader victor yanukovich win 49 % of the vote  , but because the yanks didint agree with this  , they helped encourage the ukrainians to topple him leading to 8 years of civil war of which we are obviously seeing things escalate?

The more im reading into this western media slant of a simple good guy bad guy story with the accompanying evil villain , the more murkier things are becoming.

Vote rigging is very popular over there, didn't you know.

https://www.kyivpost.com/article/content/ukraine-politics/turchynov-vote-rigging-in-favor-of-yanukovych-was-59198.html

The opposition leader who narrowly lost a suspect election, of course as the norm in Eastern block countries, was arrested after the elections.

[Groo]

No for telling lies, we would expect a referendum before you or any NeoLiberal goes to jail for the brainwashing you have wreaked on the UK public using psychology and downright lies, we will let the electorate decide, after all they are the ones on the end of it.

So your saying there is no invasion and there is no war, its all a figment of our imagination or those nasty west people filming war scenes in Hollywood. The Ukrainian President is an actor after all.