Can Russia be stopped?

[Thomas]

Dont know how true any of the above stories are , but its a small selection of the uproar of the americans bleating about china helping russia john.

So im not sure what you mean when you say china wont supply russia , but the americans are obviously concerned the chinese are helping russia one way or the other.

The yanks seem to be pissing off a lot of countries from what i can see , and its only in the "western world" media that seems to be towing the washington line of russia bad.

[Thomas]

Only because China won't supply him...

Eh?

John where are you getting your news from?

India and Russia exploring use of China's yuan as a reference currency to value the rupee-ruble trade mechanism for crude oil purchases in order to avoid the dependency on US dollars
https://www.livemint.com/industry/energy/india-and-russia-explore-payment-options-for-crude-11647198060477.html

Ever since Russian President Vladimir Putin launched his brutal and unprovoked invasion of Ukraine, the Chinese government has attempted to portray itself as a neutral player or even a potential key to solving the crisis. In reality, Chinese President Xi Jinping is acting as Putin's co-conspirator. Make no mistake. China has made its choice — and it's not siding with Ukraine or the West.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/10/china-is-part-of-problem-in-ukraine-not-solution/

US officials say Russia has asked China for military help in Ukraine

White House fears move is sign of ever closer ties between Beijing and Moscow

https://www.ft.com/content/30850470-8c8c-4b53-aa39-01497064a7b7?shareType=nongift

[Thomas]

You cannot buy a Briton.

You can buy britons in the labour party sheep , and the tories. 37 tories the russians bought , as well as starmers mate mandelson , brown and of course mr gardiner was bought by china.

[Thomas]

But I thought they were best mates with Putin.

They are thats the point john , the yanks are crying to them about bailing out putin. After the americans had done thier bit to stop their yookay and european underlings to stop buying russian gas and oil , the chinese signed a big deal with russia  .

The yanks are trying desperately to isolate russia , but as sampan says , asia is saying fack off.

[johnofgwent]

Both sides talking a peace deal,let's hope it happens.

Only because China won't supply him...

And bombing military bases near the Polish border is a damn funny way of asking for peace. Asking for surrender, yes. Asking for peace, no.

[cromwell]

I think if Putin is pushing for peace now things aren't going to plan,hope for an end to hostilities and in the longer term president for life is no more.

From there some dialogue with Russia and it's people,a return to a Cold War isn't a good idea and they need guarantees that they are not threatened either.

[Sheepy]

Ukraine, a sovereign state thirty years with no actual treaty of unity with its neighbour. Now finds its self being invaded by that neighbour. It's civilian population being bombed, no not just bombed murdered, unmercifully for daring to want another way of life to that offered by the man that resorts to the worst kind of violence , to enforce subjugation on them.
The fact that Russias neighbours , reject ! Putin, and Russia. Is all to easy to understand, now more than ever before. None of the nations that have joined NATO or those that would do so, has done so under threat from from the West, but the threat that Putin, now employs against Ukraine.
None of which can be excused by any sort of comparison let alone some of the limp comparison put forward here.

But then general, your man will never have that kind of respect it was earnt over many years and many campaigns and never a penny changed hands. You cannot buy a Briton. 

[cromwell]

Both sides talking a peace deal,let's hope it happens.

[johnofgwent]

Dont think china is going to take kindly on being lectured from the administration that ran away from afghanistan with their tail between their legs

But I thought they were best mates with Putin.

[cromwell]

https://twitter.com/vaitor/status/1502813263910023169?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502813263910023169%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

[Sampanviking]

i see it being reported that the americans are bleating to the chinese ahead of the rome sino us emergency summit not to bail the russians out.

The biden administration is and has been a facking disaster. Dont think china is going to take kindly on being lectured from the administration that ran away from afghanistan with their tail between their legs.

Threatening the indians , now the chinese , great way to make friends and secure world peace and prosperity . Have the yanks lost their marbles?

Well I did notice that at the big initial UN debate on the War, that nearly all of Asia refused to support the US resolution.
Clearly this is something that the US is not used to. I guess they are also spooked by the missile strike this morning. It seems it took out a lot of US supplied weapons and a few NATO volunteers as well.

[Thomas]

Very obviously and in large part because of the relentless barrage from Western Media, everybody has been fixated on the performance of the Russian military and how it has not performed as well as expected.
Virtually nothing however has been said (bar plucky Ukrainian resistance pokes the Nose of the Russian Bear) of the performance of the Ukrainian military especially at the top strategic level.
Mainly because there is not much to discuss?

It really does seem that the Ukrainian side has been more interested in promoting sound bites than actual sound strategy.
I question if any thought above the tactical level has really been made at all?

All there seems to be is a stubborn reluctance to abandon any territory at all, especially in the Donbas where a massive entrenched army of some 60,000 are encircled in the North Donbas and Mariupol. Other units have found themselves under siege in other major Eastern Cities. All of these forces; the bulk and best of the Ukrainian army, are trapped and face total destruction.

The point here is that Russia's objective in destroying the Ukrainian Army was made explicit at outset and the build up to the Invasion long and clearly identified. Why then did not the Ukrainian army make plans in the light of this reality.

The plan (hardly a strategy) to cling to every inch is obviously going to fail. The Ukraine is going to lose the territory and the troops trapped within it. It seems so much more sensible to have fallen back to the best and obvious defensive line they had, which is the Dnieper River and Kiev. Yes it would have meant conceding territory, but would have saved the army, and this would have given them some negotiating power, when the time for talking finally arrives.

i see it being reported that the americans are bleating to the chinese ahead of the rome sino us emergency summit not to bail the russians out.

The biden administration is and has been a facking disaster. Dont think china is going to take kindly on being lectured from the administration that ran away from afghanistan with their tail between their legs.

Threatening the indians , now the chinese , great way to make friends and secure world peace and prosperity . Have the yanks lost their marbles?

[Thomas]

Very obviously and in large part because of the relentless barrage from Western Media, everybody has been fixated on the performance of the Russian military and how it has not performed as well as expected.
Virtually nothing however has been said (bar plucky Ukrainian resistance pokes the Nose of the Russian Bear) of the performance of the Ukrainian military especially at the top strategic level.
Mainly because there is not much to discuss?

It really does seem that the Ukrainian side has been more interested in promoting sound bites than actual sound strategy.
I question if any thought above the tactical level has really been made at all?

All there seems to be is a stubborn reluctance to abandon any territory at all, especially in the Donbas where a massive entrenched army of some 60,000 are encircled in the North Donbas and Mariupol. Other units have found themselves under siege in other major Eastern Cities. All of these forces; the bulk and best of the Ukrainian army, are trapped and face total destruction.

The point here is that Russia's objective in destroying the Ukrainian Army was made explicit at outset and the build up to the Invasion long and clearly identified. Why then did not the Ukrainian army make plans in the light of this reality.

The plan (hardly a strategy) to cling to every inch is obviously going to fail. The Ukraine is going to lose the territory and the troops trapped within it. It seems so much more sensible to have fallen back to the best and obvious defensive line they had, which is the Dnieper River and Kiev. Yes it would have meant conceding territory, but would have saved the army, and this would have given them some negotiating power, when the time for talking finally arrives.

apologies sampan , me and srb sort of diverted the thread there.

[Thomas]

Ok, I accept that. But my more general point stands with the exception being our fellow occupants of this island.

Not really , as many french armies and soldiers came to scotland over the centuries as well as irish ( many irish sailed across the sea and were part of the jacobites who invaded in 1745) and invaded england in scottish armies.

The French could not invade us under Napolean. The Germans could not under Hitler. And only because of the sea. Both would certainly have defeated us had they been able to cross

sure , so what you are saying is in agreement with me , that not since 1745 has anyone invaded england. Ie , you are merely talking about the modern era.

It is certainly the case that our nations have been invaded a lot less frequently - except by each other - than they would have been were we not an island.

only in the modern era. And you cant lump us all together and then claim the island nation fortress to further your point when the scottish english border , between two ethinically and culturally different nations with differing historical languages is one of europes oldest and most fought over borders.

The scottish and english were at war with each other longer than any other country in europe or any other country england has warred with in histroy. What does it matter if you were invaded by land or sea , the invading still takes place by a foreign nation.

i dont think the historic englishman cared if it was a scot or a frenchman or anyone else who was doing the raping killing and invading.

[Sampanviking]

Very obviously and in large part because of the relentless barrage from Western Media, everybody has been fixated on the performance of the Russian military and how it has not performed as well as expected.
Virtually nothing however has been said (bar plucky Ukrainian resistance pokes the Nose of the Russian Bear) of the performance of the Ukrainian military especially at the top strategic level.
Mainly because there is not much to discuss?

It really does seem that the Ukrainian side has been more interested in promoting sound bites than actual sound strategy.
I question if any thought above the tactical level has really been made at all?

All there seems to be is a stubborn reluctance to abandon any territory at all, especially in the Donbas where a massive entrenched army of some 60,000 are encircled in the North Donbas and Mariupol. Other units have found themselves under siege in other major Eastern Cities. All of these forces; the bulk and best of the Ukrainian army, are trapped and face total destruction.

The point here is that Russia's objective in destroying the Ukrainian Army was made explicit at outset and the build up to the Invasion long and clearly identified. Why then did not the Ukrainian army make plans in the light of this reality.

The plan (hardly a strategy) to cling to every inch is obviously going to fail. The Ukraine is going to lose the territory and the troops trapped within it. It seems so much more sensible to have fallen back to the best and obvious defensive line they had, which is the Dnieper River and Kiev. Yes it would have meant conceding territory, but would have saved the army, and this would have given them some negotiating power, when the time for talking finally arrives.