So, what was the point of Brexit?

[Borchester]

What a load of crap, you just make stuff up to keep your post count going up (seriously). Explain how a computer is going to track someone who isn't generating any data. "Non-tax paying Romanian looking to hook up with HMRC worker, call this number". Absolute nonsense.

Loath as I am to agree with Pappy, he has a point. Not about the computers. By the nature of the beast, all HMRC's data is out of date by the time it is entered onto the computer. But given the time and resources, old fashioned legwork would enable me to find out not only the name of the girl you first kissed, but what she had for breakfast that day. But Pappy is also right (God, the kid is doing well today) when he says that HMRC lacks the staff to conduct such investigations

[papasmurf]

What a load of crap, you just make stuff up to keep your post count going up (seriously). Explain how a computer is going to track someone who isn't generating any data. "Non-tax paying Romanian looking to hook up with HMRC worker, call this number". Absolute nonsense.

Nick again you attack and insult me because you are ignorant. There is no such thing as not generating data, or being invisible. All that is lacking is HMRC enforcement staff, and the will to do the enforcing. The black economy is not all illegal immigrant based, they form a minority of it.
It took me three years of being called a racist, by the authorities and my then MP, when I complained about what were very obviously a large number of people working illegally. Eventually after three years a multi-agency raid discovered not only a large number of illegal immigrant workers, criminal gangers, modern slavery, and a wide range of illegal activities, the living conditions were disgusting.
I never got any thanks, and the raid and the results of it never got any publicity whatsoever.

[Nick]

Computer algorithms. (seriously.) Plus Reading advertisements in shop windows, small adds in local newspapers,  there are numerous ways, but not enough HMRC investigation staff

What a load of crap, you just make stuff up to keep your post count going up (seriously). Explain how a computer is going to track someone who isn't generating any data. "Non-tax paying Romanian looking to hook up with HMRC worker, call this number". Absolute nonsense. 

[papasmurf]

How does a government track someone who is working in the black economy? 

Computer algorithms. (seriously.) Plus Reading advertisements in shop windows, small adds in local newspapers,  there are numerous ways, but not enough HMRC investigation staff

[Nick]

You miss the point. If an EU national came to the UK and couldn't support themselves for 6 months you could have refused entry. Unless they showed they were planning to stay less than 6 months. If they subsequently couldn't support themselves the UK could have sent them home. There is no obligation under EU rules to take in other EU countries nationals and treat them like a refugee. Being an EU member in that regard is a great way to keep spongers out. I know the UK didn't do that and I know they didn't counter charge for the use of the NHS, which the UK was entitled to do. The question is why didn't the UK do this, there is a good answer. The average EU migrant contributed more to the UK economy than the average britton, thats why. They were wanted, even if your rag press blamed them on taking jobs, they didn't. They helped feed your growing employment sectors with highly skilled and educated people without the cost to the UK to produce these people. Brexit was the plan for dummy's.
My understanding is seasonal works still come, not as many. Under new UK rules they are not allowed stay, but  they usually wouldn't anyway.
If they get benefits thats a UK choice. You're out of the EU now, so whats the excuse now given for giving benefits ?  nuts stuff !

Gerry, your heads in the clouds. How does a government track someone who is working in the black economy? They land at LHR and move to Ipswich and start picking crops, they don't pay any tax or NIC's, they doss in a house with 6 others and never get in trouble with the law so never come up on any system. How do they send them home Gerry? Explain the process where they are picked up and sent home, cause you quoting EU rules just shows you don't understand the problem.

The said migrant is earning a bit more than they would have, the farmer is saving a shit load on eNIC's, WPP and the NHS is overloaded with migrants that pay nothing towards to system. This is the reality, not your cloud cuckoo land rule that says they can be sent home. It took us 15 years to get rid of a convicted terrorist because the EU kept blocking it. 

[Streetwalker]

https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/eu-membership-still-a-mistake-for-ireland/?mc_cid=e405026175&mc_eid=b4c82b85b0

The natives are catching on Gerry 

[GerryT]

No one was shipped home.
They migrated here.

You miss the point. If an EU national came to the UK and couldn't support themselves for 6 months you could have refused entry. Unless they showed they were planning to stay less than 6 months. If they subsequently couldn't support themselves the UK could have sent them home. There is no obligation under EU rules to take in other EU countries nationals and treat them like a refugee. Being an EU member in that regard is a great way to keep spongers out. I know the UK didn't do that and I know they didn't counter charge for the use of the NHS, which the UK was entitled to do. The question is why didn't the UK do this, there is a good answer. The average EU migrant contributed more to the UK economy than the average britton, thats why. They were wanted, even if your rag press blamed them on taking jobs, they didn't. They helped feed your growing employment sectors with highly skilled and educated people without the cost to the UK to produce these people. Brexit was the plan for dummy's.

Now they go home.

That is a pronounced change in the behaviour of my fellow workers. Hard to ignore.


The EU workers were and indeed still are claiming benefits.
NHS, free schooling, housing support, child support, unemployment benefit and so on.
Unemployment benefit is currently capped to 9 months for a non national.

My understanding is seasonal works still come, not as many. Under new UK rules they are not allowed stay, but  they usually wouldn't anyway.
If they get benefits thats a UK choice. Your out of the EU now, so whats the excuse now given for giving benefits ?  nuts stuff !

[GerryT]

If you'd read the news you would have seen that crops are going to waste. I'd personally have a scheme where the unemployed within a certain area would be bussed in every day and paid to pick crops, if they refuse they get their benefits cut. If they did it they'd only lose a percentage in the pound for what they earned, on a sliding scale. 

If crops are going to waste it shows two things. First UK nationals don't want to do that work and second Brexit has created a situation where foreign (EU and others) don't see the benefit in doing that work, all the extra process/procedure means they now go else where for their seasonal work.
How very chairman mao of you. Starting to sound a bit communist there with that idea. But seriously, all countries have people that won't work, can you imaging the state of the crops if you let them loose in a field. The window for picking is short and the work is hard and skilled. Those clows would do more damage than good. Productivity would be so bad that most crops would still end up rotting.

[GerryT]

The U.K. national is claiming benefits because he's getting his house paid for and claiming child benefits, the 6 pound an hour doesn't cover his bills. The EU workers as a rule don't have any children with them and are living in communes all sharing the bills.

I don't see how any of that changes because of Brexit.  You're pointing out UK domestic problems about governance, cost of living, revenue processes. All could have been addressed 10 or 20 yrs ago.

[GerryT]

What does the UNHCR have to say about how you treat the descendants of migrants 800 years after their ancestors migrated?
If you were thinking that anyone is looking at you to provide role model, you are sadly mistaken.

Your mixing up reality, We treat migrants exceptionally well, its the migrants that come and steal land, kill people, take over institutions and deprive the native people of the vote, owning a house, speaking their language, being refused an education, being refused to chose their religion and killed in their millions, driven from their country in their millions. Its those types of immigrants we have an issue with. Would you not agree, would you not do exactly the same. 

The UK is great mate.
Love it here. Millions of people around the world wish to move here.
I wonder why?

Is it because the UNHCR says we are going to treat them illegally perhaps?

No the UK is really a bit of a sh1t hole. But the people of the UK are great, I know many and regard them as good friends. But you have a Govt and ruling class that take advantage. You don't seem to see it, but the average UK person is generous, kind, friendly and fun loving. Pity you don't have a political class that reflected that.
The UK doesn't have the majority on immigration, millions of people emigrate every yr and all countries take immigrants. Do you think the UK is special ?

We don't want "many people" to claim asylum here.
That's not the idea.
Just some of the most in need of it. A select few.

It's not our goal in life to be Mother Theresa and dedicate our society to the betterment of others.
We're up for doing something along those lines, but exactly how much charity we wish to extend and to who is something we will be deciding for ourselves.

If by your own example you wish to set us a better example, be our guest. I'm sure all those needy people in the world will love you for it.

For the 281m refugees out there the UNHR have a system for processing these people, so unless you now want to leave the UK after Brexit you should follow them. I know you're special and better than any other country and rules don't really apply to you, for the rest of us: Remember these are rights, you have these just by the nature of being born. These are global rights that the UN recognises as a cornerstone, their not debatable nor can you cherry pick what you want. 
In there somewhere is the right of any asylum seeker to chose the country where they seek asylum. Its not their next door neighbour and you can't refuse an asylum request. YOu can after processing determine if the asylum seeker is a chancer and refuse them asylum, but you can't turn them away.
The UK new rules don't allow direct asylum requests unless you are on a "special restricted" list, which really tests the UNHR charter, some say that alone is illegal. For illegal asylum (if there is such a thing but there is in the UK) seeker they have to request asylum in their centre, thats right, in rwanda. One way flights are provided, I presume a successful request the person would have to fund the 6,000km trip back to the UK. This again tests the UNHR to its limits.

If you think in regard to asylum seekers the UK takes more per head of population than EU countries, you are very very very sadly wrong.  

[Baff]

LOL.
Join the EU, pay more taxes.

Hahahaha.

That's going to sell it to the electorate!

[Sheepy]

That's not central control, that's a more efficient tax system so everyone pays. That benefits all society. Anyone that wants a free for all just wants to take, not give.

It seems we ain't buying what you are selling, that the EU has it all right and we have it all wrong. Seems to me a lot of Irish aren't buying it either.

[Baff]

How are farmers getting this done now, are UK nationals doing the work, is black market non tax paying practices a thing of the past, have wages risen, whats the price of food like

The price of food has risen, but risen less than in the rest of the EU. As you would expect now that we have greater international competition for our custom.

Wages in "working class jobs" have risen dramatically.
Mine have doubled since the Brexit referendum. The first pay rises I have seen since we joined the EU all those years ago.


To be fair, half of those pay rises came as a result of Brexit, the other half came as a result of COVID.
It's been a double whammy.

[Baff]

When you were in the EU, if they had no means to pay for their stay for 6 months then they could have been shipped home.

No one was shipped home.
They migrated here.

Now they go home.

That is a pronounced change in the behaviour of my fellow workers. Hard to ignore.


The EU workers were and indeed still are claiming benefits.
NHS, free schooling, housing support, child support, unemployment benefit and so on.
Unemployment benefit is currently capped to 9 months for a non national.

[Nick]

How are farmers getting this done now, are UK nationals doing the work, is black market non tax paying practices a thing of the past, have wages risen, whats the price of food like

If you'd read the news you would have seen that crops are going to waste. I'd personally have a scheme where the unemployed within a certain area would be bussed in every day and paid to pick crops, if they refuse they get their benefits cut. If they did it they'd only lose a percentage in the pound for what they earned, on a sliding scale.