Brexit trade talks: EU to back Spain over Gibraltar

[T00ts]

There is no we toots. You walk away , we didnt vote for brexit never mind some right wing hard tory brexit .

Thomas we means whoever not you and me!  ::

[Thomas]

I give up Thomas so you didn't read anything I said to the contrary you claim.

you dont have to give up cromwell , logic is a very simple construct that somehow seems not to apply in the brexit world for some strange reason.



You cant have it both ways , either the spanish are wrong  , in which case so are you ten times over , or they arent , in which case alls fair in love and war.



Its very simple , and we are about to see it put into action , indeed we have already seen it with tusks undiplomatic announcement this morning.

[cromwell]

Right , so the cake and eat it scenario shines through yet again from little englands brexiters?



Its either ok to ignore people , in which case pain can safely and legitimately ignore what gibraltarians want and what england wants over the rock  , or its not , in which case you have to respect the wishes of scotland , northern ireland , gibraltar  , the chagos islanders and many more.



You cant have it both ways cromwell , and trying to paint yourself as the wronged party or knight in shining armour is laughable.



Just ask the northern irish "british".

I give up Thomas so you didn't read anything I said to the contrary you claim.

[Thomas]

Surely we have the biggest veto of all - we simply walk away.

There is no we toots. You walk away , we didnt vote for brexit never mind some right wing hard tory brexit .

[Thomas]

I have said none of that and if Gib is a diversion so too are the Chagos islands.

Right , so the cake and eat it scenario shines through yet again from little englands brexiters?



Its either ok to ignore people , in which case pain can safely and legitimately ignore what gibraltarians want and what england wants over the rock  , or its not , in which case you have to respect the wishes of scotland , northern ireland , gibraltar  , the chagos islanders and many more.



You cant have it both ways cromwell , and trying to paint yourself as the wronged party or knight in shining armour is laughable.



Just ask the northern irish "british".

[T00ts]

Why should anyone castigate the spainish for ignoring what gibraltar or anywhere else wants when you are doing the same?



Little england shouts . do as we say not as we do? Is that it?



You still havent even complied with the united nations over the chagos islands , where virtually every single nation voted against you , yet here we are discussing how bad the spanish are for lusting after gibraltar?



The hypocrisy is astounding , no wonder you are a figure of ridicule around the world.



The spanish are going to hound you over gibraltar and use it against you if you want an eu trade deal. If not they  have a veto.

Surely we have the biggest veto of all - we simply walk away.

[cromwell]

Why should anyone castigate the spainish for ignoring what gibraltar or anywhere else wants when you are doing the same?



Little england shouts . do as we say not as we do? Is that it?



You still havent even complied with the united nations over the chagos islands , where virtually every single nation voted against you , yet here we are discussing how bad the spanish are for lusting after gibraltar?



The hypocrisy is astounding , no wonder you are a figure of ridicule around the world.



The spanish are going to hound you over gibraltar and use it against you if you want an eu trade deal. If not they  have a veto.

I have said none of that and if Gib is a diversion so too are the Chagos islands.

[Thomas]

No it isn't a diversion because

 And if because we are leaving the eu  Gib says no we want to stay in they are free too become dependent on Spain





I have ignored none of that

Why should anyone castigate the spainish for ignoring what gibraltar or anywhere else wants when you are doing the same?



Little england shouts . do as we say not as we do? Is that it?



You still havent even complied with the united nations over the chagos islands , where virtually every single nation voted against you , yet here we are discussing how bad the spanish are for lusting after gibraltar?



The hypocrisy is astounding , no wonder you are a figure of ridicule around the world.



The spanish are going to hound you over gibraltar and use it against you if you want an eu trade deal. If not they  have a veto.

[cromwell]

The catalans is nothing more than a diversion while you try and paint the picture mostly in your own head , of little england the knight in shining armour defending the interests of gibraltar against the big bad spanish

No it isn't a diversion because

You say gibraltar wants to remain british , which is true ,but you ignore their vote on remaining in the eu.

 And if because we are leaving the eu  Gib says no we want to stay in they are free too become dependent on Spain

The spanish ignoring catalonias wishes for independence is no different in you ignoring scotlands right to have a referendum.



You ignore the northern irish unionists  , whom your prime minister made a cast iron promise to not put border up between them and the uk , which has them upset , yet you attack the spanish for ignoring gibraltars wish to remain british .



As i said , this anglo saxon nobleness and defence of the weak  and democracy is all rather well and good when it suits , nothing more.



...and it falls to pieces as soon as you scratch the surface.

I have ignored none of that

[Thomas]

Well it appears I touched a nerve there  

Where?



Let me know when you have proof about what you said about the snp , if not , we can then dismiss anything you say accordingly as rubbish .



Ta. ::  :hattip

[Thomas]

First off I missed this in the other post



Ermm no actually Thomas in an exchange regarding NI with Conor he said pretty much the same as you now,I replied (look back it is there) that we should subsidise any losses of NI till they make their wishes clear regarding unified Ireland.



Now to the above I have already said you deserve another indyref so what are you talking about?





I haven't said you don't agree with the Catalans but it's no diversion if Spain ever has control over Gib they will be in exactly the same situation.







Does it,well I do have real concern for the Catalans and have no desire as you are aware to stop an indyref or united Ireland.

The catalans is nothing more than a diversion while you try and paint the picture mostly in your own head , of little england the knight in shining armour defending the interests of gibraltar against the big bad spanish.



This brexit fantasy falls flat on its face under close scrutiny.



You say gibraltar wants to remain british , which is true ,but you ignore their vote on remaining in the eu.



The spanish ignoring catalonias wishes for independence is no different in you ignoring scotlands right to have a referendum.



You ignore the northern irish unionists  , whom your prime minister made a cast iron promise to not put border up between them and the uk , which has them upset , yet you attack the spanish for ignoring gibraltars wish to remain british .



As i said , this anglo saxon nobleness and defence of the weak  and democracy is all rather well and good when it suits , nothing more.



...and it falls to pieces as soon as you scratch the surface.

[GregB]

Well can you prove that?



I mean this is just bollocks. England could hold a referndum to end the union any time it likes. It totally controls the uk de facto english parliament with 82 % of representation , you currently have a party in the english conservative party with 95% of its representation in England , and a massive majority in the commons , and you could easily legislate to hold a referendum in england ending the union with scotland.Yet you dont?



Why is that?



You can hold a referendum on leaving the much larger and powerfull european union , but cant leave 5 half million scots behind ? Why is that?



The idea a party , thats the snp , whose very reason for existence is scottish indy from england and the ending of the yookay union , would "whinge and reject " the result is nothing more than utter horseshit and your own sour grapes and pathetic whinging.



You tell us you are going to go out and conquer the world after brexit  , the paddies  , pedro in spain , the krauts in deutschland , the frogs ,etc etc are all going to fall at your feet and want a piece of your action over trade , yet somehow you cant shake wee scotland loose from your island empire?



Honestly  , i have heard some sh*t in my time but you take the biscuit.

Well it appears I touched a nerve there  

[Barry]

Let's run through this *again*



Tourism is important to the Spanish economy. It makes up 11% of GDP.  However, tourism contributes 9% to the UK GDP.



Not a vast difference



When it comes to visitors about 20% of tourists in Spain come from the UK.  That number may fall a little. Say it halves. That's 1% of GDP, tops.



When it comes to the UK, about half our tourists come from the EU. If the visits fall by a similar amount that's nearly 2% of GDP.



So yes, would feel a loss of tourists, but the UK is far from immune to the same sort of losses.

You're comparing apples with bent bananas BBB.

You need to compare the 17 million with the number of Spanish people coming here for their winter sun.  

All those Brits with legs like milk bottles might find somewhere else to brown them off, if Spain keep getting snarky over Gib.

[cromwell]

It was , but england and wales vote leave , we didnt in scotland nor did the irish. What about respecting our vote? Thats the trouble with this democracy lark cromwell , when you disrespect others votes in other countries they tend to return it in kind.

First off I missed this in the other post

What the same as you , many in your country and your government dont give a feck wether or not you upset northern irish unionists as long as little england gets brexit , feck the jocks paddies and any one else?

Ermm no actually Thomas in an exchange regarding NI with Conor he said pretty much the same as you now,I replied (look back it is there) that we should subsidise any losses of NI till they make their wishes clear regarding unified Ireland.



Now to the above I have already said you deserve another indyref so what are you talking about?

Diversion .The catalans are another matter entirely from the point that is being made.You know i agree with the catalans , but they arent in northern irelands or gibraltars situation.

I haven't said you don't agree with the Catalans but it's no diversion if Spain ever has control over Gib they will be in exactly the same situation.

So this touching anglo saxon concern for the people of catalonia and wherever sounds empty and hollow when you are quite happy to piss over scotland against our wishes , northern ireland or anyone else.

Does it,well I do have real concern for the Catalans and have no desire as you are aware to stop an indyref or united Ireland.

[Thomas]

Let's run through this *again*



Tourism is important to the Spanish economy. It makes up 11% of GDP.  However, tourism contributes 9% to the UK GDP.



Not a vast difference



When it comes to visitors about 20% of tourists in Spain come from the UK.  That number may fall a little. Say it halves. That's 1% of GDP, tops.



When it comes to the UK, about half our tourists come from the EU. If the visits fall by a similar amount that's nearly 2% of GDP.



So yes, would feel a loss of tourists, but the UK is far from immune to the same sort of losses.

We seem to be in accord again beely.