Brexit trade talks: EU to back Spain over Gibraltar

[Thomas]

Yes the eu are behind Spain and good for them,that the Gibraltarians don't want to be part of Spain doesn't matter much,just like the Catalans.

No one is saying the gibraltarians do want to be part of spain.Did you not read this i posted earlier in the thread cromwell...

I would freely admit in what little i know of gibraltar , they would in any way want to be spanish in light of what has happened recently up in catalonia among many other issues.

The fact f the matter is though gibraltar voted 96% to remain in the eu , and from what little i understand no one is talking about hading them over to the spanish , it could go down the lines of joint sovereignty or gibraltar remaining in the eu just like northern ireland is.



The point is the spanish and their obsession over gibraltar just became a big deal in terms of the uk doing a trade deal with the eu. Thats all im saying .



This is the point i was talking about earlier where borkie likes to run around pretending everything is fine and we can all just laugh and ignore the micks or pedro etc etc over all these issues. At some point that bubble bursts and thing s start to get real.

[cromwell]

It does indeed. The point is though barry , now the uk is a third party outside the eu/ eec for the first time in over four decades  , approaching five, and spain a member of this organisation you left , the eu is fully behind the spanish , and spain will have a veto just like the republic of ireland does on any uk trade deal.



Passing it off as gibraltarians dont want to leave britian , or spain using gibraltar to camoulflage internal issues wont wash.



You said pretty much the same thing regarding varadkar , irelands claim to the 6 counties , varadkar having internal problems etc etc so much so it could almost read word for word. Johnson and the uk government still caved in to the eu and ireland over the 6 counties , so not sure the same result wont happen over spain.



Your final sentence reads like something michael howard said a number of years back about nuking pedro over gibraltar to the tory faithfull to roars of laughter across the world.



It all sounds terribly spiffing to the blue rinse anglo tory brigade , but to the rest of us its sounds like nothing more than delusion and desperation.



Spain can veto any uk trade deal it wants , internal issues or not ( what and the uk doesnt have internal issues? Feck me!)but the fact remains the eu are visibly commited to supporting spain over gibraltar.

Yes the eu are behind Spain and good for them,that the Gibraltarians don't want to be part of Spain doesn't matter much,just like the Catalans.

[Thomas]

It has been the objective of various Spanish governments to recover sovereignty over Gib which it lost over 300 years ago. Spain becomes hostile to the UK using the border as a weapon against the Gibraltarians. However it mostly does this when it has internal problems in Spain, which it wants to deflect from.

Hence this:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1235722/gibraltar-news-spain-rock-foreign-office-british-airways-sovereignty">//https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1235722/gibraltar-news-spain-rock-foreign-office-british-airways-sovereignty

I'm sure JoG would have an answer to a hostile foreign country flying military aircraft in Gib's airspace, but a SAM up the Andalucian Junta might offend, don't you think?



 :Patriot:

It does indeed. The point is though barry , now the uk is a third party outside the eu/ eec for the first time in over four decades  , approaching five, and spain a member of this organisation you left , the eu is fully behind the spanish , and spain will have a veto just like the republic of ireland does on any uk trade deal.



Passing it off as gibraltarians dont want to leave britian , or spain using gibraltar to camoulflage internal issues wont wash.



You said pretty much the same thing regarding varadkar , irelands claim to the 6 counties , varadkar having internal problems etc etc so much so it could almost read word for word. Johnson and the uk government still caved in to the eu and ireland over the 6 counties , so not sure the same result wont happen over spain.



Your final sentence reads like something michael howard said a number of years back about nuking pedro over gibraltar to the tory faithfull to roars of laughter across the world.



It all sounds terribly spiffing to the blue rinse anglo tory brigade , but to the rest of us its sounds like nothing more than delusion and desperation.



Spain can veto any uk trade deal it wants , internal issues or not ( what and the uk doesnt have internal issues? Feck me!)but the fact remains the eu are visibly commited to supporting spain over gibraltar.

[Barry]

It has been the objective of various Spanish governments to recover sovereignty over Gib which it lost over 300 years ago. Spain becomes hostile to the UK using the border as a weapon against the Gibraltarians. However it mostly does this when it has internal problems in Spain, which it wants to deflect from.

Hence this:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1235722/gibraltar-news-spain-rock-foreign-office-british-airways-sovereignty">//https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1235722/gibraltar-news-spain-rock-foreign-office-british-airways-sovereignty

I'm sure JoG would have an answer to a hostile foreign country flying military aircraft in Gib's airspace, but a SAM up the Andalucian Junta might offend, don't you think?



 :Patriot:

[Nick]

Well Toots, as you predicted and Deppity endorsed, sod is going to happen Brexit wise and we will have to make a fuss of whatever we have. As to Gib itself so what? The only value the place has is to guard the gateway to the Mediterranean  which allows access to the Suez Canal and thus the jewel in the crown that is India. Since all the Indians are now in the UK I can't see the point in hanging onto Gibraltar.

All the UK's nukes and other armaments are stored in the middle of the rock. It's a very secure place and means our ships don't have to come all the way back to the UK to reload.

[Thomas]

Well Toots, as you predicted and Deppity endorsed, sod is going to happen Brexit wise and we will have to make a fuss of whatever we have. As to Gib itself so what? The only value the place has is to guard the gateway to the Mediterranean  which allows access to the Suez Canal and thus the jewel in the crown that is India. Since all the Indians are now in the UK I can't see the point in hanging onto Gibraltar.

come oan now borkie , you will be upsetting the faithfull giving away all the territories to placate london getting a good deal. ::

[Borchester]

Is it just me? Why is such credence given to the threats from EU members no matter how outlandish? I am sure each country has it's pet pound of flesh that it would like to chop off the British in the next 11 months. So what?

Well Toots, as you predicted and Deppity endorsed, sod is going to happen Brexit wise and we will have to make a fuss of whatever we have. As to Gib itself so what? The only value the place has is to guard the gateway to the Mediterranean  which allows access to the Suez Canal and thus the jewel in the crown that is India. Since all the Indians are now in the UK I can't see the point in hanging onto Gibraltar.

[Thomas]

Is it just me? Why is such credence given to the threats from EU members no matter how outlandish? I am sure each country has it's pet pound of flesh that it would like to chop off the British in the next 11 months. So what?

We haven't even engaged yet madmen are talking up the EU again that they are better, stronger, etc etc etc. It's ridiculous. More fool the EU for washing their linen in public. There will be negotiations. There will needs be some give and take but still the bottom line is that we can simply tell the EU to get lost if they push us too hard.

One of the things the yookay governments have done past and present toots is to take the credit for the actions of the eu , and pass the blame to the eu for their own actions.



The great thing about brexit in a weird sense is that will no longer be the case , the yookay government now stands and falls by its own actions, and blaming the eu from now on in will just start to sound extremely hollow to the majority.



The eu are now the opposition , the uk no longer a member state albeit it follows rules for the next 11 months. Exactly how you wanted it.



They are there to represent their interests, as is the uk government with yours. The idea the eu will cave into uk demands is just laughable rubbish ,they are going to attack you from every conceivable angle and take the side of every member state and their interests against you.



They arent washing any linen in public. The days of them now keeping silent for not wishing to upset you as a member state are over , you are on the opposite side of the fence now. No more excuses and blaming the world for your own actions and failures.

[Thomas]

Everyone knows that the people of Gibraltar have the right to self determination and they chose by 99% to remain under UK rule.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum">//https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum

It's all hot air.

They also voted 96% to remain in the eu barry , but just like scotland and northern irelands vote , thats an inconvenient truth.



The trouble is though for you , brexiters have now forced the populations to choose between being british and european , and many folk are extremely angry about that.



I would freely admit in what little i know of gibraltar , they would in any way want to be spanish in light of what has happened recently up in catalonia among many other issues.



However , as predicted in terms of a trade deal , the eu are backing spain over gibraltar as they did ireland over the 6 counties , and it will be a major factor in the yookay getting a trade deal.



Like northern ireland where johnson has already caved in , its a problem that isnt going anywhere , and may involve massive concessions by london .



If johnson needs to , i wouldnt be surprised if he traded off gibraltar to protect londons interests, but its early days yet.

[T00ts]

Is it just me? Why is such credence given to the threats from EU members no matter how outlandish? I am sure each country has it's pet pound of flesh that it would like to chop off the British in the next 11 months. So what?

We haven't even engaged yet madmen are talking up the EU again that they are better, stronger, etc etc etc. It's ridiculous. More fool the EU for washing their linen in public. There will be negotiations. There will needs be some give and take but still the bottom line is that we can simply tell the EU to get lost if they push us too hard.

[Barry]

Everyone knows that the people of Gibraltar have the right to self determination and they chose by 99% to remain under UK rule.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum">//https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum

It's all hot air.

[BeElBeeBub]

Amazing, thing that was predicted to happen occurs....



Waiting for some to advocate sending our "gunboats" over - they don't like it up 'em etc.

[Thomas]

Brexit trade talks: EU to back Spain over Gibraltar claims

Territory's economy at risk unless UK reaches agreement with Madrid over ownership



The EU will back Spain over its territorial claims to Gibraltar in the next phase of Brexit negotiations by giving Madrid the power to exclude the British overseas territory from any trade deal struck with Brussels.



The Observer has learned that the Spanish government has insisted on reference to the Rock in the EU's opening negotiating position, which will be published in draft form on Monday.



Boris Johnson will be presented with the choice of reaching agreement with the Spaniards about Gibraltar's future or exposing its citizens to economic peril by pushing it outside any EU-UK trade deal.



"They have in principle asked that the new relationship not apply to Gibraltar without the explicit consent of Spain, which will only be given if the bilateral talks with Spain and the UK over the rock are resolved," a senior EU diplomat said.

[/b]





https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/01/brexit-trade-talks-eu-to-back-spain-over-gibraltar-claims">https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tar-claims">https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/01/brexit-trade-talks-eu-to-back-spain-over-gibraltar-claims