NI protocol

[Unlucky4Sum]

Well on the first details it looks like a whole stack of reasonable concessions by the EU

https://news.sky.com/story/politics-news-latest-final-talks-on-post-brexit-deal-as-rishi-sunak-prepares-to-meet-eu-chief-in-sign-of-breakthrough-12593360 

[Nick]

But the EU could.

That's the whole point, they won't and that's why they are coming round to dealing. 

[papasmurf]

The UK will not put a border up, why would they?

But the EU could.

[Nick]

I said a border would go up, the UK would put up a border and the EU would put up a border, with no trade deal there is no other option. Or the EU would use the agreed trade deal and the provisions within it to take action against the UK.

Do you honestly think the border the UK has between GB and NI is more important to England than the trade agreement !

The UK will not put a border up, why would they? 

[GerryT]

It could

Brexit: What is Article 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol? - BBC News

A number of comments in that article look at best just wrong, but misleading would be a better word. I'll get a better look later and comment in more detail

[Unlucky4Sum]

It could

Brexit: What is Article 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol? - BBC News

Yes it could but as that article says, the EU could effectively tear up the UK-EU deal by unilaterally imposing tariffs on our goods.  And then we'd be in real trouble.

[Streetwalker]

From where I'm standing Johnson knew full well what he was doing with the NI protocol and only dangled Art16 in front of brexiteers. Giving the impression that Art16 allowed for unilateral changing of the agreement, when it doesn't.

It could 

Brexit: What is Article 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol? - BBC News

[GerryT]

From where I was standing most of those people agreed to it because and only because of article 16 . As I have said that assured Unionists both in GB and N Ireland that the deal wasn't the final draft .

That is what is now being agreed . The problems that have arisen have been identified and a new agreement is on the table . Wether that satisfies all parties remains to be seen

From where I'm standing Johnson knew full well what he was doing with the NI protocol and only dangled Art16 in front of brexiteers. Giving the impression that Art16 allowed for unilateral changing of the agreement, when it doesn't.

[GerryT]

Gerry, you've never answered the question ever.
Again, what will the EU do if the UK tells them to jog on. Ignore fines, trade, what will the EU do about the hole in it's fence? Are they going to erect a hard border or not?

I said a border would go up, the UK would put up a border and the EU would put up a border, with no trade deal there is no other option. Or the EU would use the agreed trade deal and the provisions within it to take action against the UK. 

Do you honestly think the border the UK has between GB and NI is more important to England than the trade agreement !

[Streetwalker]

First, why would you change the plan that Johnson got such a majority to agree, were all those people wrong.  

From where I was standing most of those people agreed to it because and only because of article 16 . As I have said that assured Unionists both in GB and N Ireland that the deal wasn't the final draft .

That is what is now being agreed . The problems that have arisen have been identified and a new agreement is on the table . Wether that satisfies all parties remains to be seen 

[Nick]

I think I've answered that before, but no problem doing so again. The UK wants a trade deal with the EU, and in fairness so does the EU with the UK. That deal was struck and if it transpires that the UK breaks the deal, their could be 2 outcomes.

The best for the UK would be that the EU says the deal is off. In that case it would have been far easier had the UK been honest and just said they didn't want a deal back in 2016 and just put up the border. UK and EU trade as 3rd countries, under WTO, but that brings a lot of non-trade barriers, far worse than what was experienced at Dover. Remember non trade barriers are far worse than trade barriers such as tariffs.
The second outcome would be worse for the UK, the EU says the UK must honour its agreement and under the terms of the agreement imposes fines and punitive tariffs on the UK, a spat ensues and my bet is the massive UK would batter the EU, you'd probably agree.

Gerry, you've never answered the question ever.
Again, what will the EU do if the UK tells them to jog on. Ignore fines, trade, what will the EU do about the hole in it's fence? Are they going to erect a hard border or not?

[Unlucky4Sum]

I've asked you this time and time again, if the UK sticks 2 fingers up to the EU and tells them to take a hike what will they do about the Irish border?

Sample checks where it most irritates, tear up the trade deal and then laugh at our decline.

Still seeing Boris and co burned in effigy in Sunderland etc will be funny  

[GerryT]

I've asked you this time and time again, if the UK sticks 2 fingers up to the EU and tells them to take a hike what will they do about the Irish border?

I think I've answered that before, but no problem doing so again. The UK wants a trade deal with the EU, and in fairness so does the EU with the UK. That deal was struck and if it transpires that the UK breaks the deal, their could be 2 outcomes.

The best for the UK would be that the EU says the deal is off. In that case it would have been far easier had the UK been honest and just said they didn't want a deal back in 2016 and just put up the border. UK and EU trade as 3rd countries, under WTO, but that brings a lot of non-trade barriers, far worse than what was experienced at Dover. Remember non trade barriers are far worse than trade barriers such as tariffs.
The second outcome would be worse for the UK, the EU says the UK must honour its agreement and under the terms of the agreement imposes fines and punitive tariffs on the UK, a spat ensues and my bet is the massive UK would batter the EU, you'd probably agree.

[papasmurf]

But they wouldn't, they'd give a deal to the UK the same as if we were in the EU, otherwise the Provo's would kick off and the Red Sox wouldn't be happy.

Nick how do you know that please? In any case it looks as if the brown semi-solid substance is going to hit the air conditioning tomorrow or the next day with Sunak looking as if he is going to hack off everyone.

[Nick]

Put a border back between Eire and Northern Ireland.

But they wouldn't, they'd give a deal to the UK the same as if we were in the EU, otherwise the Provo's would kick off and the Red Sox wouldn't be happy.