So where are these 40 trade deals?

[T00ts]

someone once said....

 ::  ::  ::  ::  ::

[BeElBeeBub]

I was just thinking. I guess we could say that leavers are more realistic than the remain lot. They see only one way forward in life which is shackled to the EU. This involves the prospect of the EU project and it seems there is only one direction to that but whether it will be a success in any terms is debatable. To extricate themselves from it should it become necessary, particularly if they are financially dependent, has been seen to be tricky even for us with our economic strength.



The leavers on the other hand are a bit more flexible and dare I say courageous. We are prepared to branch out, knowing that the future will depend upon our own ambitions and abilities. Prepared to be global in the true sense of the word without the inhibitions of the protectionist ideas offered by the EU bigwigs. Again life is uncertain but we are confident in our ability to adjust with speed if necessary and be competitive once again.



Perhaps this is the main difference.   Ooh plus I guess, we tend to be the strong silent type!  

someone once said....

The first sign of madness is talking to yourself, the second is answering!   ::  :brd:

[BeElBeeBub]

Please find any posts where I ever said any of that as opposed to



Where I did.

Would you deny that a part of the leave pitch was that EU membership has hampered the UK economy and Brexit will free it from that restriction?



It is true that some Brexiters have always been "it doesn't matter if it costs us...some things are more important than the economy" but that wasn't the central message and I would argue that it wasn't what 17.4m people voted for.



However, you still haven't answered the original question.  What are your thoughts that a prominent promise by a prominent Leave politician has proven to be false.  Do you think it will be the only one?



Let me turn it around.  What Leave promises do you think will be honored?

[T00ts]

I was just thinking. I guess we could say that leavers are more realistic than the remain lot. They see only one way forward in life which is shackled to the EU. This involves the prospect of the EU project and it seems there is only one direction to that but whether it will be a success in any terms is debatable. To extricate themselves from it should it become necessary, particularly if they are financially dependent, has been seen to be tricky even for us with our economic strength.



The leavers on the other hand are a bit more flexible and dare I say courageous. We are prepared to branch out, knowing that the future will depend upon our own ambitions and abilities. Prepared to be global in the true sense of the word without the inhibitions of the protectionist ideas offered by the EU bigwigs. Again life is uncertain but we are confident in our ability to adjust with speed if necessary and be competitive once again.



Perhaps this is the main difference.   Ooh plus I guess, we tend to be the strong silent type!  

[cromwell]

This is quite the climb down from the pre referendum and pre brexit day position of "Breixt will make the UK richer"



"Shackled to a corpse"

"Buccaneering open Britain"

"Global Britain"

"Unleash Britain's potential"

Please find any posts where I ever said any of that as opposed to

"Prepared to take a hit"

"we never said it might not cost"

Where I did.

[T00ts]

This is quite the climb down from the pre referendum and pre brexit day position of "Breixt will make the UK richer"



"Shackled to a corpse"

"Buccaneering open Britain"

"Global Britain"

"Unleash Britain's potential"



etc

etc



Are now replaced with



"There may be bumps and scrapes along the way"

"Prepared to take a hit"

"there are more important things than the economy"

"we never said it might not cost"



and similar.

The first sign of madness is talking to yourself, the second is answering!   ::  :brd:

[BeElBeeBub]

Look Conor I really expect little else from the remain side,but haven't there been those on that side here or in Ireland who've said yes the eu or Ireland will take a hit,but not as big as you will (half expected a "so ner!" on occasion   )



I never expected we wouldn't,though I think any setbacks will not last.



You cannot expect such a change without that possibility,how would it have finished had people said in 1940 " Oh no it's too big a risk we can't challenge the Nazis" and there were the siren voices  like Lord Halifax who would've done just that.



I really want to puke when I hear the soft sods whinge " you've stolen my future" at that time people were going to have their futures really stolen from under them but willingly took the risk.



And before anyone goes off on one no I'm not comparing the eu to the nazis,I do laugh though how we are being reminded we are a little country now,your empires gone,really as if we hadn't noticed.

There are those who can't let go of the past and would love to see us on our knees,it's not just in europe though there are many around the world harbouring such grudges based on historical slights,on past forums there were many yanks like that blind that they were the new colonialists but in a different sense and blind also to that they were already in decline despite of their sureness of the mighty USA.



No longer having an empire does not mean we as a country cannot prosper in the wider world,we've always been reluctant passengers on the european project and we've got off before the terminus which may or not end in a train wreck



Yes there may be bumps and scrapes along the way,we have taken a great decision one of many in this nations history of which the eu membership is just a blip in time,I am confident we will come away just fine.

This is quite the climb down from the pre referendum and pre brexit day position of "Breixt will make the UK richer"



"Shackled to a corpse"

"Buccaneering open Britain"

"Global Britain"

"Unleash Britain's potential"



etc

etc



Are now replaced with



"There may be bumps and scrapes along the way"

"Prepared to take a hit"

"there are more important things than the economy"

"we never said it might not cost"



and similar.

[BeElBeeBub]

Heard it all before,wrecked economy,living in caves ,thickos ignoring reality,we're all going to die(wrong thread perhaps.....corona virus?)

Yawn

response I anticipated - "handwaving away".



In this case straw manning - I made zero mention of wrecked economies, caves, "thickos" or viruses so demolishing those arguments is inconsequential.



We have a government minster who made a prediction that his many critics were wrong when they said "rolling over" our 40 or so trade deals would not be simple.



He has subsequently been proven wrong.  Yet there is not a peep from Leavers



Yet the replies on this thread show leavers seem very touchy (dare I say "triggered"?) by anyone pointing out their strange silence.

[papasmurf]

I'm worried this country is losing its sanity.

It already has by having Boris as Prime Minister.

[boggart]

Good to see you posting again Boggart.



I do think though that the words were meant quite literally:



"We're going to replicate the 40 EU free trade agreements that exist before we leave the European Union so we've got no disruption of trade [...] I hear people saying 'oh we won't have any [free trade agreements] before we leave.  Well believe me we'll have up to 40 ready for one second after midnight in March 2019 [...] All these faint hearts saying we cannot do it - it's absolute rubbish."



https://www.businessinsider.com/liam-fox-promises-to-sign-40-free-trade-deals-the-second-after-brexit-2017-10?r=US&IR=T">https://www.businessinsider.com/liam-fo ... ?r=US&IR=T">https://www.businessinsider.com/liam-fox-promises-to-sign-40-free-trade-deals-the-second-after-brexit-2017-10?r=US&IR=T

Maybe it's just me, but I don't ever take what a politician says about what the future holds as being literal. If I did, it would involve both trusting politicians and believing that they are competent.

[cromwell]

He's saying that people would ignore the inconvenient facts and claim they knew what they were voting for.  How many times have we heard Leavers on this forum say that they are "prepared to take a hit"?  If people keep saying that, then it doesn't seem illegitimate or unfair at all for Beelbebub to simply say he expects people to say that very same thing again.  



At the end of the day, it is now clear that the claim that the UK would just "copy and paste" the 40 trade deals the day after Brexit was a lie.  It is now irrefutable.

Look Conor I really expect little else from the remain side,but haven't there been those on that side here or in Ireland who've said yes the eu or Ireland will take a hit,but not as big as you will (half expected a "so ner!" on occasion   )



I never expected we wouldn't,though I think any setbacks will not last.



You cannot expect such a change without that possibility,how would it have finished had people said in 1940 " Oh no it's too big a risk we can't challenge the Nazis" and there were the siren voices  like Lord Halifax who would've done just that.



I really want to puke when I hear the soft sods whinge " you've stolen my future" at that time people were going to have their futures really stolen from under them but willingly took the risk.



And before anyone goes off on one no I'm not comparing the eu to the nazis,I do laugh though how we are being reminded we are a little country now,your empires gone,really as if we hadn't noticed.

There are those who can't let go of the past and would love to see us on our knees,it's not just in europe though there are many around the world harbouring such grudges based on historical slights,on past forums there were many yanks like that blind that they were the new colonialists but in a different sense and blind also to that they were already in decline despite of their sureness of the mighty USA.



No longer having an empire does not mean we as a country cannot prosper in the wider world,we've always been reluctant passengers on the european project and we've got off before the terminus which may or not end in a train wreck



Yes there may be bumps and scrapes along the way,we have taken a great decision one of many in this nations history of which the eu membership is just a blip in time,I am confident we will come away just fine.

[Conchúr]

Some people seem to not realise the difference between figurative and literal.

Good to see you posting again Boggart.



I do think though that the words were meant quite literally:



"We're going to replicate the 40 EU free trade agreements that exist before we leave the European Union so we've got no disruption of trade [...] I hear people saying 'oh we won't have any [free trade agreements] before we leave.  Well believe me we'll have up to 40 ready for one second after midnight in March 2019 [...] All these faint hearts saying we cannot do it - it's absolute rubbish."



https://www.businessinsider.com/liam-fox-promises-to-sign-40-free-trade-deals-the-second-after-brexit-2017-10?r=US&IR=T">https://www.businessinsider.com/liam-fo ... ?r=US&IR=T">https://www.businessinsider.com/liam-fox-promises-to-sign-40-free-trade-deals-the-second-after-brexit-2017-10?r=US&IR=T

[Conchúr]

And from beeblys post



What does that look like............... thickos

He's saying that people would ignore the inconvenient facts and claim they knew what they were voting for.  How many times have we heard Leavers on this forum say that they are "prepared to take a hit"?  If people keep saying that, then it doesn't seem illegitimate or unfair at all for Beelbebub to simply say he expects people to say that very same thing again.  



At the end of the day, it is now clear that the claim that the UK would just "copy and paste" the 40 trade deals the day after Brexit was a lie.  It is now irrefutable.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Yeah, this always going to work out to be a totally unrealistic prediction, and it's hard to see where the big ones are going to come from for a while yet.  The UK has yet to even submit negotiation objectives to the USA for a trade deal — because it simply has not had the capacity — because for now the focus will be on dealing with the EU, which has a very high level of experience when it comes to trade negotiations.

The government has just set out plans to ban new petrol cars being being sold after 2035, and like in another thread, a ban on shale gas a couple of months before.



With regard to money to live off and eat, a government who puts banning trade ahead of trying to do it is heading for disaster. I'm very worried about our car industry as multiple large employers are going to pack up or go bust. Our large retail shops are going bust, our airlines are as well.



I'm worried this country is losing its sanity. It picks about with irrelevant crap all day long and never notices the obvious stuff. We are being led by media know-nothing personalities, not businessmen.

[cromwell]

In fairness, nothing has been said in this thread about wrecked economies, thickos, or anyone going to die.  We then have Toots saying she's sick of being bullied.  It all seems very hypersensitive to me on a thread where someone has pointed out a previous claim by a member of the government that was unrealistic and now, demonstrably, false.

And from beeblys post

My bet: just ignore the inconvenient facts. Alternatively, claim this was always the plan and exactly what they voted for.

What does that look like............... thickos