Bring Back Boris?

[patman post]

Farage may not have been THE official lead Leave campaign but his Leave.EU was an officially recognised Leave campaign and received air time as a result.

Say the name, Farage, and 90% of the time among voters, the immediate word association is "Brexit". And it's the punters' perceptions that will ultimately hold sway...

[Scott777]

I don't have to explain why enough gullible people were convinced by dishonest and illegal campaigning.  Best of luck trying to prove that they weren't

No problem, and since you have no explanation, I suggest it's because people could see through the exaggerations of the remain campaign, the fear-mongering, and decided independence was more important than a little security.  The point is, you try to blame a 'dishonest' leave campaign, but ignore the dishonest remain campaign, and pretend only leave was a problem, which is dishonest of you.

[Unlucky4Sum]

I never mentioned any recognised leader, but seen as you've said it I'll find you one.

yes please

[Nick]

I'm saying that you are failing miserably to show that any recognised Leave leader said pre referendum that Brexit would be problematic in the immediate years afterwards

So your post 78 supposition:  'You've been told, we expected a short term hit but look to the future.' is either a complete lie or a worthless comment about an unsubstantiated public view that may or may not have been held by you and one or two others.

You only got to your 17 million by false promises and illegal campaigning, you know full well that many of that 17 million resent how they were conned.  Best you find a way to make Brexit work in the next 18 months or your pyrrhic dream could be on route to blowing up.

I never mentioned any recognised leader, but seen as you've said it I'll find you one. 

[Unlucky4Sum]

Perhaps you forgot that Farage was sidelined from the leave campaign when Johnsons group 'vote leave' were given the official status of campaigning for leave . Though Farage had been at it for 25 years , was the leader of a political group in the EU parliament and knew the ins and outs of the way the EU worked not to mention knowing the characters he would be dealing with , go figure .

After the Mayhem era that saw her appointed without challenge aided and abetted by Micheal Gove that saw her give so much back we may as well have stayed what did the Establishment do ? It put Johnson in charge , one by one conservative negociators were chewed up and spat out by the European side and not once (as far as we know) was the man that could have made it 'easy' asked for help . Can you imagine the look on the face of Barnier had Farage walked through the door instead of David Davis , civil servant remainer Olly Robins ,Domonic (Wheres Dover) Rabb and David (oven ready) Frost.

What a useless bunch they turned out to be , by the time Foriegn Secretary (the office that possibly should have been in the room from the off) Truss turned up we had tied ourselves up in knots with the only option of a re-set being the threat of article 16 .
Absolute shambles and people wonder why its not gone too well ,Tory incompetence undermined by a remainer parliament ,a remainer civil service and a remainer House of Lords .

We feared the conservatives could not be trusted  with Brexit their infighting took preference for them and with the words of one reamainer MP on the radio (I forget his name ) still ringing loud and clear on the morning of the result ''They may have won the referendum but we still run the country''.

Just in these last weeks we have seen another conservative PM , sell out Sunak throwing the Brexit balls up in the air once more with a behind closed doors 'Windsor Framework' deal with VDL  and Badenoch telling us the purge of EU laws is being watered down .

A true leader or as Farage would have  would have left the EU in its entirety when it became obvious the EU had no intention of making a mutually beneficial deal for it is the uncertainty of it all along with the remainer establishment that has damaged the UK not Brexit itself .

Farage may not have been THE official lead Leave campaign but his Leave.EU was an officially recognised Leave campaign and received air time as a result.

I agree that May was not a good negotiator and her deal would have been awful all round.  But she and Davis were trying to get a solution to both the NI problem and the UK trade problem while hampered for most of that time by a Bozo of a Foreign Secretary that kept making the relationship with the EU toxic with all sorts of idiot comments.
 
I know some people still believe we could have got Boris's 'cake and eat it' outcome but even he wasn't that stupid enough to believe his blatant lie.

[Unlucky4Sum]

And why did they not believe they would be richer in the EU?  You still haven't explained how they were MORE influence by the Brexit side which had less funding and support.  Let me guess: the Russians did it.  😉

I don't have to explain why enough gullible people were convinced by dishonest and illegal campaigning.  Best of luck trying to prove that they weren't

[Streetwalker]

Perhaps you forget Vote Leave's Gove saying:  'The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.'  we didn't

Or Vote Leave Central saying: 'After we Vote Leave, British businesses will trade freely with the EU.' they aren't

Farage: 'To me, Brexit is easy . .'  it isn't

etc etc.  The deliberate impression most leave voters would have had is there would be no such immediate years issues.

Perhaps you forgot that Farage was sidelined from the leave campaign when Johnsons group 'vote leave' were given the official status of campaigning for leave . Though Farage had been at it for 25 years , was the leader of a political group in the EU parliament and knew the ins and outs of the way the EU worked not to mention knowing the characters he would be dealing with , go figure .

After the Mayhem era that saw her appointed without challenge aided and abetted by Micheal Gove that saw her give so much back we may as well have stayed what did the Establishment do ? It put Johnson in charge , one by one conservative negociators were chewed up and spat out by the European side and not once (as far as we know) was the man that could have made it 'easy' asked for help . Can you imagine the look on the face of Barnier had Farage walked through the door instead of David Davis , civil servant remainer Olly Robins ,Domonic (Wheres Dover) Rabb and David (oven ready) Frost.

What a useless bunch they turned out to be , by the time Foriegn Secretary (the office that possibly should have been in the room from the off) Truss turned up we had tied ourselves up in knots with the only option of a re-set being the threat of article 16 .
Absolute shambles and people wonder why its not gone too well ,Tory incompetence undermined by a remainer parliament ,a remainer civil service and a remainer House of Lords .

We feared the conservatives could not be trusted  with Brexit their infighting took preference for them and with the words of one reamainer MP on the radio (I forget his name ) still ringing loud and clear on the morning of the result ''They may have won the referendum but we still run the country''.

Just in these last weeks we have seen another conservative PM , sell out Sunak throwing the Brexit balls up in the air once more with a behind closed doors 'Windsor Framework' deal with VDL  and Badenoch telling us the purge of EU laws is being watered down .

A true leader or as Farage would have  would have left the EU in its entirety when it became obvious the EU had no intention of making a mutually beneficial deal for it is the uncertainty of it all along with the remainer establishment that has damaged the UK not Brexit itself .

[Scott777]

Because the easiest lie to use is the one people are predisposed to believe.  And of course so many people wanted to believe the UK would be wonderfully richer after this supposed release from the EU.

And why did they not believe they would be richer in the EU?  You still haven't explained how they were MORE influence by the Brexit side which had less funding and support.  Let me guess: the Russians did it.  😉

[Unlucky4Sum]

And why did anyone believe the vote leave "chums" more than they believed all the media and most of the politicians?

Because the easiest lie to use is the one people are predisposed to believe.  And of course so many people wanted to believe the UK would be wonderfully richer after this supposed release from the EU.
 
It was the most dishonest campaigning in modern UK history and you vocal leavers need to start realising that you need to own what you vested on the UK.  This false pretending you lot said it would be bad for years is just laying further dishonesty on the pile.


 

[Scott777]

Which part of your Vote Leave chums told everyone the PM etc were wrong isn't getting through your skull?

And why did anyone believe the vote leave "chums" more than they believed all the media and most of the politicians?

[Scott777]

You only got to your 17 million by false promises and illegal campaigning, 

Most of the campaigning was for Remain.  Nearly all the media were pro remain.  Nearly all the politicians were pro remain, including the PM.  Because most of the media was pro remain, they only showed you remainers, including famous people like Richard Dawkins, supporting remain.  And yet you manage to conclude people were somehow duped into voting to leave.  Had it not occurred to you, they made their own independent decision, based on critical thinking?  Or otherwise, what strange magical process happened to make them vote leave?  Was it aliens?

[Unlucky4Sum]

How were they conned?  We were told it was a bad idea by the PM and the media.  You say it was a bad idea, so the PM and the media were telling the truth.  Which part was a lie?  Again, you seem to be contradicting yourself.

Which part of your Vote Leave chums told everyone the PM etc were wrong isn't getting through your skull?

[Scott777]

millions were conned into voting for your emotional project that's turned out to be the very problem loaded fiasco you full well knew it would be.

How were they conned?  We were told it was a bad idea by the PM and the media.  You say it was a bad idea, so the PM and the media were telling the truth.  Which part was a lie?  Again, you seem to be contradicting yourself.

[Unlucky4Sum]

I think we were all expecting a downturn with a change of  head office regardless of how well WA talks went .

Perhaps you forget Vote Leave's Gove saying:  'The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.'   we didn't

Or Vote Leave Central saying: 'After we Vote Leave, British businesses will trade freely with the EU.'  they aren't

Farage:  'To me, Brexit is easy . .'  it isn't

etc etc.  The deliberate impression most leave voters would have had is there would be no such immediate years issues.
 

[Unlucky4Sum]

Post #96, that's three of us as Borky liked it. Do you suggest we're all lying?

I'm saying that you are failing miserably to show that any recognised Leave leader said pre referendum that Brexit would be problematic in the immediate years afterwards

So your post 78 supposition:  'You've been told, we expected a short term hit but look to the future.' is either a complete lie or a worthless comment about an unsubstantiated public view that may or may not have been held by you and one or two others.

You only got to your 17 million by false promises and illegal campaigning, you know full well that many of that 17 million resent how they were conned.  Best you find a way to make Brexit work in the next 18 months or your pyrrhic dream could be on route to blowing up.