Scale of children who have parents in prison in England and Wales revealed for first time

[Nick]

Are you sure with the very high level of accidental deaths in the UKS.

Don't know where UKS is, but if you mean the U.K. or US, how do you accidentally end up in someone else's house? 
Before the Baseball bat or Bow come into play you're going to have to deal with a 40 odd KG Dobermann. 

[papasmurf]

The sooner we adopt US law where you have the right to defend you property the better,

Are you sure with the very high level of accidental deaths in the UKS.

[Nick]

In theory, several cases since Tony Martin show otherwise.

Tony Martin's case was a total miscarriage of justice, I believe that anyone entering your house illegally is fair game and you have the right to defend yourself, hence the reason that I have a baseball bat at the side of my bed and a compound bow in the cupboard. The arrows only have field points fitted, broadheads may be seen as a little excessive. 😉
The sooner we adopt US law where you have the right to defend you property the better, I used to have a sign on front and back doors stating any intrusion will be met with armed response, according to a North Carolina cop that gave me the right to shoot them dead. He also said after you've shot them put another in the wall so as to show you gave a warning shot first for when the police arrive. True Story.

[papasmurf]

Defending your self is not a crime, unless you go over the top and use excess force. If you floor someone in self defence you will not be done, if you then decide to kick them in the head you probably will, that is the choice.
The word charge just means you've been accused of something.

In theory, several cases since Tony Martin show otherwise.

[Nick]

No, you don't always have a "choice" when it comes to committing a crime.

If someone is trying to kill you, do you have a choice in putting them down or not? Because you will still be arrested and charged for that in the UK, even if you didn't start it and the other person is being absolutely ruthless towards you

I personally have a clean criminal record, one of the only times I've had trouble from plod in blighty is when I jumped on a train because it was about to leave and I had no time to buy a ticket, they decided to fine me despite explaining it was either that or miss the last train. In the end, it only resulted in an on-the-spot fine but it just shows how unreasonable some can be when officers don't use their discretion fairly, nonetheless, I admit fault for not buying a ticket first but still - very ridiculous to penalise people for simply being in a rush and barely making the last train.

The world isn't black and white.

Defending your self is not a crime, unless you go over the top and use excess force. If you floor someone in self defence you will not be done, if you then decide to kick them in the head you probably will, that is the choice. 
The word charge just means you've been accused of something. 

[Nick]

Nick that is with the extremely low current detection rate of only just above 5% one of the stupidest comments you have ever made. The low detection rates or the police can't be bothered is why more and more people are turning to DIY justice.

WTF has detection rates hit to do with anything? If you don't understand a thread keep out of it. Getting caught has absolutely nothing to do with choice. 

[papasmurf]

The detection rate for people inside is 100%, stop writing ridiculous off topic bollox.

Nick that is with the extremely low current detection rate of only just above 5% one of the stupidest comments you have ever made. The low detection rates or the police can't be bothered is why more and more people are turning to DIY justice. 

[Borg Refinery]

Unless you are wrongly convicted and put inside you have the choice whether to commit a crime or not. It's a very simple concept, same as speeding. If you decide to speed, and get caught, you get a fine. If you don't speed, you don't get a fine.

No, you don't always have a "choice" when it comes to committing a crime.

If someone is trying to kill you, do you have a choice in putting them down or not? Because you will still be arrested and charged for that in the UK, even if you didn't start it and the other person is being absolutely ruthless towards you

I personally have a clean criminal record, one of the only times I've had trouble from plod in blighty is when I jumped on a train because it was about to leave and I had no time to buy a ticket, they decided to fine me despite explaining it was either that or miss the last train. In the end, it only resulted in an on-the-spot fine but it just shows how unreasonable some can be when officers don't use their discretion fairly, nonetheless, I admit fault for not buying a ticket first but still - very ridiculous to penalise people for simply being in a rush and barely making the last train.

The world isn't black and white.

[Nick]

Nick given the low detection rates I was not being ridiculous.


Crimes solved England and Wales 2023 | Statista



For the year ending March 2023, 5.7 percent of crime offences resulted in a charge or summons in England and Wales. While this was an improvement when compared with the previous four quarters, it was far lower than in the first quarter of 2015, when 15.5 percent of crimes were solved.

The detection rate for people inside is 100%, stop writing ridiculous off topic bollox. 

[papasmurf]

You need to read the thread John, I never mentioned anything to do with prison being a deterrent. I said prison is a choice, you choose crime you've chosen prison.
Smurfs ridiculous blurb that you have to get caught is irrelevant as if you're in prison you were caught.

Nick given the low detection rates I was not being ridiculous.


Crimes solved England and Wales 2023 | Statista



For the year ending March 2023, 5.7 percent of crime offences resulted in a charge or summons in England and Wales. While this was an improvement when compared with the previous four quarters, it was far lower than in the first quarter of 2015, when 15.5 percent of crimes were solved.

[Nick]

Not really.

if your argument is that prison is supposed to be a deterrent, which i agree it should be, the question is what proportion of crimes are pursued. Given the plod gon't give a flying one about burglary for example, burglars don't fear being brought to book do they...

You need to read the thread John, I never mentioned anything to do with prison being a deterrent. I said prison is a choice, you choose crime you've chosen prison. 
Smurfs ridiculous blurb that you have to get caught is irrelevant as if you're in prison you were caught. 

[johnofgwent]

Another irrelevant comment.

Not really.

if your argument is that prison is supposed to be a deterrent, which i agree it should be, the question is what proportion of crimes are pursued. Given the plod gon't give a flying one about burglary for example, burglars don't fear being brought to book do they...

[papasmurf]

Another irrelevant comment.

Not irrelevant at all. There is a massive amount of crime carried out that is never solved and no-one arrested.
There are many formal complaints about because the police police get shirty when anyone catches the criminals  after the police have done nothing.
Personally I have had to tell the police up in Sunderland that if the (expletives deleted,) who stole my wife's motorcycle and burned it in their area in June 2023 that if (and when) those who did it suffer non accidental injuries I am 500 miles away don't blame me.

[Nick]

Nick you have to be caught first. Which currently is not much of a risk.

Another irrelevant comment. 

[papasmurf]

Unless you are wrongly convicted and put inside you have the choice whether to commit a crime or not. It's a very simple concept, same as speeding. If you decide to speed, and get caught, you get a fine. If you don't speed, you don't get a fine.

Nick you have to be caught first. Which currently is not much of a risk.