This deal is no good either

[T00ts]

The reason Labour are trailing in the polls is because their press management is terrible, and their leader is incompetent at exploiting his opponent's issues.

I think the relevant phrase is '...their leader is incompetent...'

[Javert]

Without a doubt javert , so my point to ciaphas is that labour telling us they need to delay this latest WA to scrutinise it is a nonsense when the vast majority of them are going to vote against it no matter anyway.



This is the kind of game playing that is going to be labours downfall javert , and why they are trailing so badly in the polls.







Now you appear to be agreeing with what i have been saying for a long time now , and why the best way forward is to brexit , see what the fall out is then try and get a referendum to rejoin?

I think you are missing my point.  My point is that the issues are fairly evenly balanced, with most people not changing their vote, but, there are a small % of people who are swing voters and they are the ones you have to change their minds to flip the outcome.  This is well known in all government elections in all countries.



Even some tories who say they support the WA wanted more time to scrutinise it - it's completely ludicrous to say that you can only have 3 days to scrutinise such important legislation based on an arbitrary deadline that can easily be changed, and you only don't want to change it for political reasons.  In fact it's so ludicrous that I suspect it was done on purpose as they knew it wouldn't fly.  Games you say?  Indeed.



Boris Johnson could have come back and proposed to request a 3 week delay and asked if that was ok and voted on it - he didn't because he is playing a game where he wants to try to portray it as all someone else's fault.  A cynic might think this has something to do with the polls that show about 13% of the population will switch to the Brexit party if he doesn't meet his 31/10 "do or die" deadline.



I'll give him this though - his press team are very good at manipulating the facts and changing the agenda to suit his position, and the other side are terrible at it - they should be parroting - "look, Boris missed his deadline" over and over again right now and not let him change the subject.



If you could say that absolutely everyone (100%) are never going to change their position no matter what, I would agree with you, but this is not the case.  Check out "#remainernow" website and on twitter.



The reason Labour are trailing in the polls is because their press management is terrible, and their leader is incompetent at exploiting his opponent's issues.

[Thomas]

I agree but isn't this the same as a reflection of the population in general?  Most voters already know what their opinions are and are not going to change them, and will always vote for the same party, or at least the same policies.

Without a doubt javert , so my point to ciaphas is that labour telling us they need to delay this latest WA to scrutinise it is a nonsense when the vast majority of them are going to vote against it no matter anyway.



This is the kind of game playing that is going to be labours downfall javert , and why they are trailing so badly in the polls.

Only a very small % of voters actually change their minds on which party to vote for, and even then, it's usually because the party has changed rather than the voter. It's an even smaller % who actually change their opinion on key matters.

yet you have been telling us up till now you believe everyone has changed their mind over brexit , yet here you tell us the opposite that only a small amount of people ever change their minds over key issues?



Now you appear to be agreeing with what i have been saying for a long time now , and why the best way forward is to brexit , see what the fall out is then try and get a referendum to rejoin?

This is probably the same in the HOC - most MPs will simply follow their pre-ordained position and only a very few will ever switch sides or rebel.

So we are in agreement than javert , labour are simply game playing and trying to delay the inevitable , and will be punished accordingly by voters for disrespecting the majority democratic vote to leave the eu in 2016.



So now we agree on that , surely we can then agree that the only sensible position for the opposition to take is to agree a general election?



Otherwise their grand plan to obfusticate the tories and delay for the next two and a bit years till the next GE in the hope voters change their minds over brexit( which you agree is unlikely in your earlier statement) is a pathetic plan which isnt going to work and is merely going to cause years of heartache for the majority with all the uncertainty and delay?

[papasmurf]

The chaos you refer to, if we have left, will be unnoticeable, in my opinion.

It won't be un-noticeable to the millions badly effected.

[Barry]

If we have the ensuing chaos will cost the Tories a lot of votes.

No, you've got it wrong.

If we have left the Tories will leave with a landslide as the electorate will be glad Boris has got the job done.

If we have not left, Boris promised we would have by the 31st October, so people will be voting Brexit party.



The chaos you refer to, if we have left, will be unnoticeable, in my opinion.

[Conchúr]

::  :: Good try!

Mischievous on my part, admittedly.

[T00ts]

I thought you were referring to the Leave campaign for a moment there!

 ::  :: Good try!

[Borchester]

If we have the ensuing chaos will cost the Tories a lot of votes.

Those still at liberty.



Did you not say that most of them are in prison for expenses fraud and being Tories?

[papasmurf]

That all depends on whether we have left the EU before the election day.

If we have the ensuing chaos will cost the Tories a lot of votes.

[Conchúr]

I don't think we can take Labour's demise for granted. I can't gauge their impact on the naive vote. Remember last time? They promised them the world and employed social media to great effect, creating almost mass hysteria among those susceptible to the idea that they could change the world for the better.

I thought you were referring to the Leave campaign for a moment there!

[Sheepy]

I suspect they are all lying through their back teeth and have reverted to type of trying to split the vote under left and right type.Via Labour and Conservative utter bullshit.

[Cassie]

I suspect there would be plenty of volunteers for that.

 

[papasmurf]

 another possible hung Parliament?

I suspect there would be plenty of volunteers for that.

[Barry]

The other problem is the Brexit party a dead duck at a general election or will it drag votes away from other parties.

With no precedent that will make tactical voting difficult.

That all depends on whether we have left the EU before the election day. If we have left, a handful of extreme Brexiteers might vote for Farage, but if we are still in, they might get up to 20% of the vote. Most of that will come from the Tories which would reduce their MP numbers to another possible hung Parliament?

 :shrg:

[papasmurf]

I don't think we can take Labour's demise for granted.

Quite, Labour has ignored the usual means of communication, (and I can't blame them for that.) and are using the internet.

(Although I have not had any communications from them for years.)