This deal is no good either

[T00ts]

For sure , though with the tories it depends on how things pan out . We already know that labour are toast

I don't think we can take Labour's demise for granted. I can't gauge their impact on the naive vote. Remember last time? They promised them the world and employed social media to great effect, creating almost mass hysteria among those susceptible to the idea that they could change the world for the better.

[papasmurf]

For sure , though with the tories it depends on how things pan out . We already know that labour are toast

"We" don't know that labour are "toast."

[Streetwalker]

That applies to Tory MPs as well.

For sure , though with the tories it depends on how things pan out . We already know that labour are toast

[papasmurf]

Well it amused me,because they all fought the last election saying they were believers in democracy and were all for article 50 and leaving the EU.Now its you cannot correlate the two things.

If they were believers in democracy there would be proportional representation.

[Sheepy]

This may have been true in the past but there are some very pissed off voters who have Labour  MP's that are not doing as they were told  . These voters in traditional labour areas will probably never be able to force themselves to vote conservative .



They will though happily vote Brexit .

Well it amused me,because they all fought the last election saying they were believers in democracy and were all for article 50 and leaving the EU.Now its you cannot correlate the two things.

[papasmurf]

This may have been true in the past but there are some very pissed off voters who have Labour  MP's that are not doing as they were told  .

That applies to Tory MPs as well.

[Streetwalker]

EU elections are not General Elections, it is impossible to extrapolate from one to the other.

This may have been true in the past but there are some very pissed off voters who have Labour  MP's that are not doing as they were told  . These voters in traditional labour areas will probably never be able to force themselves to vote conservative .



They will though happily vote Brexit .

[Sheepy]

EU elections are not General Elections, it is impossible to extrapolate from one to the other.

Is that so,funny thing is,the Westminster party even believe their own propaganda then,interesting.

[papasmurf]

Well it all depends doesn't it,if people have wised up enough to the Westminster party,I guess you hadn't noticed,the EU elections were a clear warning people were taking just about all they are taking from stale old Westminster politics.

EU elections are not General Elections, it is impossible to extrapolate from one to the other.

[Sheepy]

The other problem is the Brexit party a dead duck at a general election or will it drag votes away from other parties.

With no precedent that will make tactical voting difficult.

Well it all depends doesn't it,if people have wised up enough to the Westminster party,I guess you hadn't noticed,the EU elections were a clear warning people were taking just about all they are taking from stale old Westminster politics.

[papasmurf]

Seems like due to the polls being all over the place, and so many different factors in play, the next election will be very difficult to call and may not go with the conventional polls which say the Tories will win easily (especially given that they said the same thing last time).



This may actually make it more difficult for some tactical voters.  The resurgence of the Lib Dems means that for Lib Dem supporters, voting tactically for Labour is not a "no brainer" like it was in 2017.  For example, my constituency it's now seen as a key target seat by the Lib Dems, even though they were way behind both the Tories and Labour in all of the recent elections.  I would prefer to vote Lib Dem, but on the other hand I don't want to waste my vote or accidently let the Conservatives in.  This will be a much more difficult choice this time around.

The other problem is the Brexit party a dead duck at a general election or will it drag votes away from other parties.

With no precedent that will make tactical voting difficult.

[Javert]

I would say practically everyone in that place has already made their minds up about the bill before they have read a single scrap of information of what is in it , its called tribal politics ciaphas.

I agree but isn't this the same as a reflection of the population in general?  Most voters already know what their opinions are and are not going to change them, and will always vote for the same party, or at least the same policies.



Only a very small % of voters actually change their minds on which party to vote for, and even then, it's usually because the party has changed rather than the voter.  It's an even smaller % who actually change their opinion on key matters.  



This is probably the same in the HOC - most MPs will simply follow their pre-ordained position and only a very few will ever switch sides or rebel.

[Javert]

Actually it did work In that some 60 Tory seats are now marginal. It always has been a long term process.

I would not be at all surprised if Iain Duncan Smith gets kicked out this time.

Seems like due to the polls being all over the place, and so many different factors in play, the next election will be very difficult to call and may not go with the conventional polls which say the Tories will win easily (especially given that they said the same thing last time).



This may actually make it more difficult for some tactical voters.  The resurgence of the Lib Dems means that for Lib Dem supporters, voting tactically for Labour is not a "no brainer" like it was in 2017.  For example, my constituency it's now seen as a key target seat by the Lib Dems, even though they were way behind both the Tories and Labour in all of the recent elections.  I would prefer to vote Lib Dem, but on the other hand I don't want to waste my vote or accidently let the Conservatives in.  This will be a much more difficult choice this time around.

[T00ts]

Some talk about the government saying the second reading approval was enough of a meaningful vote to satisfy Section 13 of the United Kingdom's European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. I bet Gina Miller would be up at court on November 1st or sooner if they try to leave on 31st October based on that. Government seems to have lost its meaning.

We don't have government at the moment. They are flying by the seat of their pants while breaking every recognised convention in Parliament that they can get away with. A minority Government is locked in power in name only for as long as it suits the opposition who is wielding power with an arrogance that needs to be seen to be believed.

[Barry]

Some talk about the government saying the second reading approval was enough of a meaningful vote to satisfy Section 13 of the United Kingdom's European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. I bet Gina Miller would be up at court on November 1st or sooner if they try to leave on 31st October based on that. Government seems to have lost its meaning.