General Brexit discussion thread

[Baff]

Tariffs are irrelevent to UK exports for the reason already mentioned.
Currency value is the primary driver of export price variation. Not tariff barrier.

I don't expect delays at any other port than Calais.
Other ports are available.

Delays at Calais I expect to be temporary in nature.
Ultimately if the French fisherman block the port or it is unable to deal with our freight quickly, Rotterdam will take up the slack gladly.
They want the business.

The infrastructure for fish distribution is all in Calais. They will attempt to maintain their position as a centre of it.

I agree that fish heading to France from the UK will be less fresh than fish landed in France.
If the french refuse to land our fish, that may well reduce quality.
However, it will still be the freshest fish available to their markets. And also the cheapest.


Will UK people eat more fish?
Yes.

If there is a glut, domestic prices will fall.
If their are tariffs, add that to our depreciated currency and people will eat less imports.
Shopping habits will change to take into account the change in prices and availability of things.

[papasmurf]

British fish sold in the EU will be cheaper after the imposition of tariffs,

Are you mad, what are you smoking.  Come the impending no deal Brexit, there will be no export of fresh fish and live shellfish to Europe for several reasons, the tariffs the EU will impose on it, the delays at the ports meaning it will spoil.
There will be no inshore fishing in Britain because currently 95%-98% of the catch is exported to Europe. There is practically no home market for it, because of the high price, and basically few Brits will eat it.

[Sheepy]

So my Irish pixies and the general who will think he is something else next, when Barry tells you it is about democracy, be under no doubt it is.

[Baff]

whats the loss
whats the gain
will these fish the UK catch be sold in the UK or shipped to Australia or Japan.

While your doing your homework, what happens the UK fishing waters. Your countries fishing righs pre EU were 50m from the coast, I presume thats what your going back to as your going back on recent deals.

No.
Due to currency devaluation, British fish sold in the EU will be cheaper after the imposition of tariffs, than they were tariff free prior to the referendum.
And we sold plenty of fish at that price 4 years ago.

The market in the EU is solid and fully exploitable.
Tariff barriers are not an issue for UK exports to the EU.

We don't need a trade deal with you.
Sorry.


Our fishing rights are those applied to us by the UN convention on the sea.
And defacto, they are the rights are navy are able to enforce.
A navy we have just spent the last four year investing in hard, in anticipation of fisheries disputes.

Project of peace are we?
Prove it by keeping your noses out of our territory.

Project of peace my arse.
The only reason you preach peace is because you have no army.
Something you intend to change.

[Sheepy]

Trump had his wall, I heard from a very reliable source that Johnson is building a big net around the UK to keep all the UK fish in the UK. Doesn't matter what colour passport they have, their going nowhere.

Trump came to power with a all the aces, he managed to mess it all up, because he decided the jokers in the Middle East would trump them, they don't. The EU thought they could con the British people out of democracy with the Westminster party doing their bidding on the end of a chain with promises of great power and riches, so we formed the largest and fastest growing democratic political force in the world by far, we also have the biggest network of the worldwide web, the trouble with the EU is they are such arrogant greedy pigs, who think they can feck with anyone they like, not this time Gerry. I don't see the Westminster party voting for war with China either, they ain't some easy walk over.

[T00ts]

Hang on toots, 7hr's to go and we are at Johnson's 'die in a ditch' deadline. The blazing saddles sheriff BoJo has the gun at his head, trigger cocked "one move and the idiot gets it, i'm not messing"
No way Johnson is going to back down from his deadline......again 
Fishing is not that important to the EU, being prepared to not give the UK a deal without it just shows how important a deal with the UK is to the EU.

Why are the UK so hung up on fishing anyway, it's not worth much to the UK economy and it doesn't employ many jobs. Is this the only card the UK holds ??  I thought the UK held all the cards, looking like all you have is the joker...in more than one way.

What do you mean hang on? You have completely misread the situation. I am even more miffed that you shout for EU and Ireland and live over here. Presumably because it's better which rather sticks your arguments into a cocked hat!

The leader of the EU, Angela Merkel, has told Macron to get in line. He in true Gallic form is saying NON! Napoleon has spoken again. Now the question is who is most worried about no deal? Merkel and her car manufacturers who have been giving her earache for a couple of years? S Ireland who although they try to call a good game know full well that they will be shut off from civilisation and possibly N Ireland trade when they choose us not them? Macron with France in rather dire straits with a population who will happily burn tyres, strike ad infinitum and chuck him out of office possibly with the guillotine? Spain desperate for renewed tourism trade? That's just for starters.

Gerry - follow the money! There is only one leader in the EU and it's our dear friend Germany. Kid yourself as much as you want, we have all been trying to tell you, but when push comes to shove, they will do what Merkel will decide. She will play it to the buffers but .... we've seen it all before. It's a game as old as the hills. Just watch the money.

[GerryT]

Small loss for a big gain.

whats the loss
whats the gain
will these fish the UK catch be sold in the UK or shipped to Australia or Japan.

While your doing your homework, what happens the UK fishing waters. Your countries fishing righs pre EU were 50m from the coast, I presume thats what your going back to as your going back on recent deals.

[GerryT]

There's plenty of fish in the bay of Biscay for France. Nice friendly EU waters, Spain/France share lovingly.
They can also fish in the English Channel up to half way. They can fish in Irish waters, as again that is another fluffy friendly EU country.
But not in UK waters when the transition is over, unless there is some kind of agreement.

Trump had his wall, I heard from a very reliable source that Johnson is building a big net around the UK to keep all the UK fish in the UK. Doesn't matter what colour passport they have, their going nowhere.

[GerryT]

He has apparently given them 24 hours but it does make me wonder how stupid Macron really is. Does he not realise that no deal means no fish? Small man syndrome on display and typical of the French and Spanish. My Spanish mother taught me about the Spanish habit of cutting their nose off to spite their face, all talk and no trousers. Even Merkel is telling them to stop being stupid, her car manufacturers will lynch her if she loses this game of chicken. I just hope BJ has the longest stare!

Hang on toots, 7hr's to go and we are at Johnson's 'die in a ditch' deadline. The blazing saddles sheriff BoJo has the gun at his head, trigger cocked "one move and the idiot gets it, i'm not messing"
No way Johnson is going to back down from his deadline......again 
Fishing is not that important to the EU, being prepared to not give the UK a deal without it just shows how important a deal with the UK is to the EU.

Why are the UK so hung up on fishing anyway, it's not worth much to the UK economy and it doesn't employ many jobs. Is this the only card the UK holds ??  I thought the UK held all the cards, looking like all you have is the joker...in more than one way.

[GerryT]

Be honest with yourself, is what you like about the EU the economics?
Is that what the big attraction for you is?
Now that you have been honest with yourself.
Start being honest with us.
Trying to justify your politics by telling us how rich it is making us doesn't cut it.
We are not so stupid and not so suddenly rich.

The UK hasn't yet left, yet it's economy is 3% smaller to where it should be due to brexit, measured before c19 hit. Yes the EU has helped to make the UK prosper, when you leave the opposite will happen, as has been shown. Ireland has developed having access to the EU and without it our progress would have been much slower

So we know Jaydee's only interest in th EU is as a wedge issue to beat "England" with.
His goal is Scottish independence and he see's discontent with the Brexit as a medium towards that end. He is here to stoke that discontent as best he can.
Other friends want world government and see the EU as a step in that direction.
Othe friends still, don't like the political system in the UK and see the EU as the only viable way of replacing it.
Other friends still don't like the Tory's but can't democratically overrule them. They see the EU as a limit and a counter to Tory power. How to get unpopular green policies passed in a country that won't vote for them, for example.
Then we have the grievance bunch. Those who hate the "anglo hegemenony". America. The British Empire. And see the EU as a means of containing us. Punishing us even.

Jaydee has an opinion and as part of the UK it's as valid as yours, Scottish independence is more a question of when rather than if.
The EU is a economic entity, to make that work there has to be political agreement and alignment in areas, the member countries can leave if they don't like it. Your blaming the EU on the failing of your own UK political system, that starts with a failed election FPTP system, the UK needs to fit it's own problems and stop projecting onto the EU and blaming it for your own failings.
Your deluded if you think the EU is trying to contain any member state let alone punishing you. The Eu does the opposite, it takes member states and helps them grow. It invests in the weaker areas/states so that they can prosper and share with the greater nations. Your grievance is you don't want to give a cent to help anyone, you want to take advantage of these countries as you see yourself as superior, your not. What you see as the UK being held back is the UK making joint decisions, together with other countries. What you see as punishment is the UK not been allowed, as it did for centuries to do what it wants, when it wants. You call that sovereignty, but that type of sovereignty doesn't exist in this world. Go back in time if that's what you want.

Who actually likes the EU because they want to see multinationals make more money at the expense of small businesses?
Who actually likes the EU because they believe an extra layer of managment abd bureaucracy will make governance cheaper?
Answer?  No one.
No one at all.
Justification of the EU on economic grounds is disingenuous.
You are just lying to us.
And that is what they went on in the referendum campaign.
A giant unprovable and unconvincing lie. And they wonder why they lost.

Your whole argument is built on you defining what the EU is, start at the wrong place and you can feel comfortable with your own falsehoods.
'they' won the ref campaign built on lies, tugging at peoples heart strings with the NHS gaining 350m a week, spreading fear about being over run by the new EU state Turkey, telling lies about an EU Army. I really could go on but whats the point, the biggest lie of all was the UK being held back economically and outside the EU the Empire would rise again (do you hear the music build (dum dum de dum dum de dum de dum de dum).

Thats why recent polls shows 57% of the UK wants to remain in the EU and 35% want to leave. The lies have been found out, people see what brexit means....dum dum de dum......

[Baff]

Small loss for a big gain.

[papasmurf]

There's plenty of fish in the bay of Biscay for France. Nice friendly EU waters, Spain/France share lovingly.
They can also fish in the English Channel up to half way. They can fish in Irish waters, as again that is another fluffy friendly EU country.
But not in UK waters when the transition is over, unless there is some kind of agreement.

What seems to be forgotten is British fishermen fish in French waters, which won't happen after a no deal Brexit.

[Barry]

There's plenty of fish in the bay of Biscay for France. Nice friendly EU waters, Spain/France share lovingly.
They can also fish in the English Channel up to half way. They can fish in Irish waters, as again that is another fluffy friendly EU country.
But not in UK waters when the transition is over, unless there is some kind of agreement.

[papasmurf]

Does he not realise that no deal means no fish?

Care to explain that please.

[T00ts]

Boris is on the ropes over this flu business so he will probably try to rally support by taking an extra hard line with the EU.

Every cloud etc 

He has apparently given them 24 hours but it does make me wonder how stupid Macron really is. Does he not realise that no deal means no fish? Small man syndrome on display and typical of the French and Spanish. My Spanish mother taught me about the Spanish habit of cutting their nose off to spite their face, all talk and no trousers. Even Merkel is telling them to stop being stupid, her car manufacturers will lynch her if she loses this game of chicken. I just hope BJ has the longest stare!