Have I lost the plot?

[Baff]

In perpetuity.
LOL.

[Javert]

After January, the UK government will decide who gets to lisence what.

My understanding is that the most profitable parts of all those quotas were already sold to foreign owned (often non EU) companies in perpetuity.  If that's the case, all the above is irrelevant because there won't be any decision to take as the quotas are already owned by those foreign companies forever.  Is that not the case then?

The other point is that as has been pointed out many times, the UK fishing industry is such a tiny portion of the UK economy, that surrendering other things in order to increase fishing is a great idea, and will be supported by all patriotic UK citizens, until they realise that they are being impacted by all the other bad decisions made in order to increase fishing.  Some of the people I know who get most hot under the collar about this don't even eat fish, and certainly don't eat any kind of fish that's commonly caught in UK close inshore waters.

[Baff]

The EEC forced them to do it.

How did the EEC force them to do it?  The limited research I've done on the topic doesn't show this.

But anyway, even if you are correct, it doesn't matter because the UK government is not currently saying that it's going to get those fishing rights back from their foreign owners after Brexit, so my point still stands anyway.

The way I understood it at high level, is that one issue that happened is that UK fishing fleet got a smaller quota from the EEC, mainly because they were never fishing in UK waters but they were over in Iceland stealing Icelandic fish.  When the (very small) Icelandic Navy managed to defeat the (apparently invincible) Royal Navy and sent our fishermen packing, our fishermen were now very upset that they couldn't claim UK fishing waters all for themselves.

Lesson - what goes around comes around - if they had not been away trying to take Iceland's fish, they would have had much bigger quotas in the first place, so it's a bit ironic that they now constantly talk of country rights to keep their own waters.

Factortame.
The benchmark case in UK law when primacy of EU law was first ruled.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_(Factortame_Ltd)_v_Secretary_of_State_for_Transport#:~:text=R%20(Factortame%20Ltd)%20v%20Secretary%20of%20State%20for%20Transport%20was,to%20be%20registered%20in%20the

Same lesson. What goes around, comes around.




After January, the UK government will decide who gets to lisence what.
Those decisions will now favour UK fisherman.

Detractors of the UK will like to imagine that the UK government will continue to sell out the UK's interests to foreign fishermen.
To continue to prioritise EU businesses over UK ones.
They will not.

To think differently is to misunderstand the political climate.

The red vote is borrowed.
Britain first is the mood of the country. Those who do not understand this, will not rule here.

France is not worried about this for no reason. Germany and Netherlands the same.
Their happy time is about to end. Ours is about to return.

If you think that after all this spotlight on fishing that the UK govt will still be doing business as usual, you could not be more wrong.
In the past fishing lisences were allocated by the EU. Now they are allocated by the UK.
No one has to get any fishing lisences back. They expire each year.

[Thomas]

Isn't there a key point on the first page of this thread - many of the UK fishing people have sold their fishing rights to foreign companies  in perpetuity.  .

Why did they do that?

Was it anything to do with the fact that before ted heath signed the uk up to the CFP to join the then EEC , the uk government own department said at the time it would lead to the uk , especailly scotland have a much weakened and less efficient national fleet with massive job losses and that fishermen sold their rights off as they saw no future being tied to the monolithic european CFP?

A DAFS briefing note warned: "In short, at present it is much easier to see the drawbacks for our fishermen likely to be involved in the Common Fisheries Policy than to be at all positive that there will be benefits to offset, let alone outweigh them.

Another DAFS paper in July 1970 warned that the small boat section of the UK industry would be damaged and the benefits might not outweigh the disadvantages.

It said the small boats were more likely to be affected because they were "less enterprising and less mobile"

"I was on our committee and we organised a big meeting, attended by 200 fishermen from the north and west and all over. And it was out of that we managed to negotiate the ten year 12-mile limit."

But he added: "The reality is that it is done and dusted and although it won't look good for the politicians and civil servants who were involved at the time, the question is what we can do about it now.

"If it jolts our present day politicians into giving some sympathy and support to the industry because they have a conscience about what happened in the past then that might be helpful.

"But my main worry is the power that the European Fisheries Commission now has to imperil this industry under the CFP."

[Streetwalker]

You just dont get it do you beelbug ?  Its got nothing to do with the fecking fish but the principle that we control our own territorial waters .

It's not a problem, change how you currently control your waters, where you allow fishermen to sell fishing quotas to foreigners.

Indeed , I believe that is exactly what the Fisheries bill currently going through parliament is doing .

[Thomas]

Lesson - what goes around comes around -

thats a bit deep for in here on a thursday night javert.

You certainly learned that lesson last decemebr after smirking for four years the anti democrats in parliament were overturning the brexit vote , and didnt have to enact brexit as parliament was sovereign , till you realised they had to go back and face the voter at the polling booths.

What happened again javert?

The mythical remain majority you hinted incessantly who were going to put brexit to the sword dissappeared in a puff of liberal smoke .

[Thomas]

Ahhhh javerts back.

must be only 17 weeks to go till hard brexit.

[Javert]

The EEC forced them to do it.

How did the EEC force them to do it?  The limited research I've done on the topic doesn't show this.

But anyway, even if you are correct, it doesn't matter because the UK government is not currently saying that it's going to get those fishing rights back from their foreign owners after Brexit, so my point still stands anyway.

The way I understood it at high level, is that one issue that happened is that UK fishing fleet got a smaller quota from the EEC, mainly because they were never fishing in UK waters but they were over in Iceland stealing Icelandic fish.  When the (very small) Icelandic Navy managed to defeat the (apparently invincible) Royal Navy and sent our fishermen packing, our fishermen were now very upset that they couldn't claim UK fishing waters all for themselves.

Lesson - what goes around comes around - if they had not been away trying to take Iceland's fish, they would have had much bigger quotas in the first place, so it's a bit ironic that they now constantly talk of country rights to keep their own waters.

[Baff]

Isn't there a key point on the first page of this thread - many of the UK fishing people have sold their fishing rights to foreign companies  in perpetuity.  The EU did not force them to do that, and even if they had, I'm not aware of any government plan to use military (and illegal) force to re-claim those rights.

As such, I'm a bit puzzled by the determination to take back "our" fishing waters, so that the foreign people we already sold all the fishing rights to can carry on fishing uninterrupted by EU vessels.

The EEC forced them to do it.
Took the country to court and fined us heavily for our sins.

Devastating the UK fishing industry in the process.
Something like 3/4 jobs were lost. The fines were spent on buying a fishing fleet for their rivals.

Justice is part of this equation.

[Nick]

Aw come on guys I was asking a genuine question don't let it descend into another playground squabble. If you can't get on, ignore one another!

I don't see why our fishing industry should be written off forever. Why can't we expect them to recover, get an entrepreneurial spirit once the French etc clear out and stop stripping the fish? I have heard enough complaints from fishermen bewailing their hard luck stories in the past. Now is their chance to show the rest of us what they are really made of. The same goes for every other business.

The problem is that the fishermen have been lying about their catch for years. Not declaring it to HMRC.

[Javert]

Isn't there a key point on the first page of this thread - many of the UK fishing people have sold their fishing rights to foreign companies  in perpetuity.  The EU did not force them to do that, and even if they had, I'm not aware of any government plan to use military (and illegal) force to re-claim those rights.

As such, I'm a bit puzzled by the determination to take back "our" fishing waters, so that the foreign people we already sold all the fishing rights to can carry on fishing uninterrupted by EU vessels.

[papasmurf]

why no set quotas within the UK fishing area and sell them to the highest bidder ?

Conservation.

[GerryT]

You just dont get it do you beelbug ?  Its got nothing to do with the fecking fish but the principle that we control our own territorial waters . 

It's not a problem, change how you currently control your waters, where you allow fishermen to sell fishing quotas to foreigners.
Reverse that, buy back the fishing rights from these people and then you have control. Here's an idea, why no set quotas within the UK fishing area and sell them to the highest bidder ?

[Thomas]

You just dont get it do you beelbug ?  Its got nothing to do with the fecking fish but the principle that we control our own territorial waters .

its called doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result streetwalker.

They have been punting the brexit  economic bogeyman for four years if not more , and have lost every referendum and election in the process.

I think they should keep it up , it seems to be hardening the resolve of the english voter to leave.

[Thomas]

Let's not forget that over half the UK's waters are Scottish waters.

If Brexit leads to Scottish independence, English vessels may lose the right to fish there....

62% to be precise.

Scottish independence will happen anyway , so why should england back down from leaving an organisation the majority so clearly dislike being a part of ?

Brexit isnt the cause of scottish indy , merely a symptom of the decline of the uk and its empire.