Have I lost the plot?

[Borg Refinery]

Well you tell me why would another Scot be happy with the Scottish fisherman who by the way have suffered greatly as well, just want to throw in the towel and give it up to the EU  because beelbug feels bitter. that doesn't make sense somewhere.

sheepy , by and large many scottish fishermen voted for brexit, as the CFP is absolutely detested .

On top of that , fishing represents such a tiny tiny fraction of the scottish economy anyway , and if the scottish fishermen are sold out it wont be the first time .

Simply disgusting, another time another Tory.

I don't blame the EU for that, I blame successive Labour and Tory govts for ceding everything to them.

[Thomas]

and dont forget its not all as one sided as pro european surrender monkey beelbeeb make out. Remeber back in 2017 , the eu were absolutely desperate to gt fishing rights to our waters...

BRUSSELS is set to intensify the row over Brexit and fishing rights at this weekend's EU summit after a leaked document revealed the EU27 wants to "build on" the current access arrangements loathed by UK fishermen.
The leak came as campaign group Fishing for Leave dismissed Theresa May's strong insistence that there would be "no trade-off" between EU access to UK waters post Brexit and Britain's desire to get a trade deal with the EU27, accusing her of being either "an idiot or a liar" over her assurance.
The leaked one-page EU paper points out how the desire to get a fisheries agreement by July 2020 must protect the existing rights of European fishing fleets to use British waters.

[BeElBeeBub]

The only country in the eu that has a larger EEZ than the uk is france , no one else comes close. Yet the spanish have the largest fishing fleet. ( yet portugal have a larger eez)

Again this all depends how you measure a.fishing fleet.

By vessel numbers the largest is Greece, Italy then Spain

By engine power, it's the French then Italy and Spain.

By holding capacity (probably a more useful measure) Spain is the largest, then UK and France more or less tied for 2nd.

By catch, which is probably the most useful metric the UK is 3rd behind Spain and Denmark.

What's interesting about that ranking is that it doesn't account for *where* the fleets fish.


Have a look at this



Note that although the spanish fleet catches more than Denmark or the UK, it catches less in the NE Atlantic (the UK "patch") than Denmark and the UK.  It's lead is from catches in the med, Indian Ocean and South Atlantic 

Hardly treading on the UK's toes.

So by catch in "European" waters, the UK is the 2md biggest. Which is where you think we should be right?

So the uk should be landing the second largest catch in the eu as it stands , but it isnt.

[Thomas]

Well you tell me why would another Scot be happy with the Scottish fisherman who by the way have suffered greatly as well, just want to throw in the towel and give it up to the EU  because beelbug feels bitter. that doesn't make sense somewhere.

sheepy , by and large many scottish fishermen voted for brexit, as the CFP is absolutely detested .

On top of that , fishing represents such a tiny tiny fraction of the scottish economy anyway , and if the scottish fishermen are sold out it wont be the first time .

[Thomas]

Still, will of the people (well not the Scottish people) and all that

well scotland had its chance in 2014 , and could have been sitting watching this all eating popcorn and what happened?

Status quoers like you told us to remain.

Thankfully the english were made of sterner stuff and stuck two fingers right up to you in 2016 , so bleating about the scottish not haveing voted brexit is all a bit hollow in my ears when folk like you anglo remain status quoers did your best to shaft us back in 2014 and stop scotland leaving .

Not one ounce of sympathy in my soul for you remain cants.

[Sheepy]

Scotland makes up 8.2 % of the uk population , and is three fifths the size of england. However  , when you look at the uk eez , Scotland has 62% of the uk eez , and lands two thirds of the uk fish.

yup, all this dick waving about fish is about to smash the Scottish fishing industry really hard.

Still, will of the people (well not the Scottish people) and all that

He's pissed off that you don't give a flying fish about Scotland and their corrupt referendum but seemingly pretend to care about the EU ref when it suits you.

ie democracy when it suits you.

That's his primary gripe.

He's not wrong.

Well you tell me why would another Scot be happy with the Scottish fisherman who by the way have suffered greatly as well, just want to throw in the towel and give it up to the EU  because beelbug feels bitter. that doesn't make sense somewhere.

[Thomas]

He's pissed off that you don't give a flying fish about Scotland and their corrupt referendum but seemingly pretend to care about the EU ref when it suits you.

ie democracy when it suits you.

That's his primary gripe.

He's not wrong.

Beelbeeb is what i call a status quoer.

He will get no sympathy or help from me.

[Thomas]

yup, all this dick waving about fish is about to smash the Scottish fishing industry really hard.

Still, will of the people (well not the Scottish people) and all that

better to be a dick waver than a feckin surrender monkey.

[Borg Refinery]

Scotland makes up 8.2 % of the uk population , and is three fifths the size of england. However  , when you look at the uk eez , Scotland has 62% of the uk eez , and lands two thirds of the uk fish.

yup, all this dick waving about fish is about to smash the Scottish fishing industry really hard.

Still, will of the people (well not the Scottish people) and all that

He's pissed off that you don't give a flying fish about Scotland and their corrupt referendum but seemingly pretend to care about the EU ref when it suits you.

ie democracy when it suits you.

That's his primary gripe.

He's not wrong.

[Thomas]

Still, our newly unemployed fishermen will be able to look at our expanse of water and say "this is ours!"

ok but what you keep missing is brexiters tell you they want to sell into eu markets and are up for negotiation ,but not at any cost.

You appear to simply want the government to surrender at every turn to whatever the eu want, i say feck that.

The uk voted to leave the eu , and it wil be leaving , and it wont be getting tied into eu rules and regulations that the uk doesnt want. Its that simple.

16 weeks to go.

[Borg Refinery]

Referenda in this country is a sick joke in general and always has been.

I guess this shines a bright light on the corrupt history of our countrie(s).

[BeElBeeBub]

Scotland makes up 8.2 % of the uk population , and is three fifths the size of england. However  , when you look at the uk eez , Scotland has 62% of the uk eez , and lands two thirds of the uk fish.

yup, all this dick waving about fish is about to smash the Scottish fishing industry really hard.

Still, will of the people (well not the Scottish people) and all that

[BeElBeeBub]

Figures, figures, figures !!  The fact is we have sovereign waters and will be taking them back. Whether we trade some of them as part of a deal is unknown but frankly immaterial, they're still our waters do what we like.

Well, we can within the bounds of the various UN agreement the UK is party to.

Though we can choose who to allow to fish in our waters we must still fish sustainably.

Of course, as I keep pointing out, catching a fish is no use if you can't sell it to anyone.  We can prevent EU vessels from fishing in UK EEZ waters (not actually the same as UK territorial waters) but we can't force the EU to give us any concessions on the paperwork and regulations to sell those fish to EU members kour biggest market)

So whilst we may gain the right to dictate unilaterally who fishes in the UK EEZ, we will lose the right to fish in the non UK waters and selling the fish will be more difficult.  Overall the fishing industry will probably decline both in terms of fishermen bit also in terms of the much more important processing industry.

In fact our biggest processes seafood industry will see significant tariffs (12-13%) and restrictions and will see zero benefits from taking control of our EEZ as the vast majority of smoked salmon is farmed and therefore,, by definition, not caught by EU fishermen.

Still, our newly unemployed fishermen will be able to look at our expanse of water and say "this is ours!"

[Thomas]

1 in every 3 cod caught by an EU boat is caught by a UK boat. In the North sea (the EU's biggest for fishing area) the UK has over 20kt of the 33kt quota.

Scotland makes up 8.2 % of the uk population , and is three fifths the size of england. However  , when you look at the uk eez , Scotland has 62% of the uk eez , and lands two thirds of the uk fish.

So what would be a better comparison would be the size of the current uk eez , including scotland , and comparisons with other sea faring european nations eez , and like i have done with scotland , compare how much we in the yookay should be landing as a percentage of total eu EEZ which are our territorial waters. .

The only country in the eu that has a larger EEZ than the uk is france , no one else comes close. Yet the spanish have the largest fishing fleet. ( yet portugal have a larger eez)

So the uk should be landing the second largest catch in the eu as it stands , but it isnt.

I appreciate it is much more complicated than this , but digby jones is right when he says the CFP and quotas are unfair on the uk and arent working .

lets remind ourselves what digby jones though said in your quote..

In UK waters, the UK can only catch 10% of the EU Haddock quota; the French take 66%. In the Channel, non-UK EU boats take 91% of cod. From 1/1/21 these are our waters Mr Barnier. For the last four years you should have been preparing for this moment re fishing instead of

assuming u could bully us into submission.The status quo just ain't going to happen, Brussels. Welcome to competition on your doorstep from the World's 5th largest economy outwith the EU. Why not reform the EU to meet the challenge instead of just trying to eliminate competition?

So digby jones is pretty much spot on. The argument really boils down to the uk has large fishing waters that the eu wants , and the eu has the fish markets the uk wants to sell into.

The question is will the uk trade off sovereignty to access those markets?

Will the eu climb down on their rules to gain access to uk fishing waters?

You seem to continually side with johnny foreigner against your own people. I think the uk will be fine , and if the eu try and bully the uk into some sort of surrender , then johnson should say no thank you and walk.

[papasmurf]

Figures, figures, figures !!  The fact is we have sovereign waters and will be taking them back. Whether we trade some of them as part of a deal is unknown but frankly immaterial, they're still our waters do what we like.

Well apparently, (Conversation I had with someone involved earlier today,) most of the local fishing industry will shut down within 48 hours if there is a no deal Brexit.
I would rather believe someone who has to export fresh fish and live shellfish to France and Spain or shut up shop and go out of business.