Tory Infighting Thread #331,998

[Good old]

almost certainly be similar basic policy .

Why do labour supporters keep doing this thing about policy?

Corbyn proved in 2017 , and 2019 , you can have all the progressive policy you like , but if you are on the other side of the fence on things like the constitutional issues ( brexit scot indy etc ) you are going to get absolutely hammered.

I dont see starmer doing anything more than repeating the same mistakes milliband did before him policy wise........trying to out tory the tories in england is futile . Member milliband  ( and im not suggesting this was progressive policy) saying labour would be tougher than the tories on welfare?

If starmer trys to take labour back to the right , the hard left will tear the party apart.

Face it labour are fecked. Scotland hates them , northern england hates them over europe ( and wont easily forget or forgive)the welsh will one day wake up , and southern england outside london literally has little time for them.

I can't see how they regain power , and every political commentator i read says they can only do it by coalition. Four years though , i admit is a long time in the wilderness so we will see.

I'm not at all sure Starmer, or the party are going to do a simple Blair II There are areas , such as nationalisation, subsidised housing  and health to be focused on, the ways things are going these are Popular now, and  going to be more so in the near future. Times were about to change with Brexit, especially if it didn't fetch noticeable improvement. COVID has hammered change into the situation. Coalition may well be the near future,  either way if things are to be hard an electorate can change opinion drastically in just a year or two, so politically In a democracy situations are never Irreversible.

[Borg Refinery]

almost certainly be similar basic policy .

Why do labour supporters keep doing this thing about policy?

Corbyn proved in 2017 , and 2019 , you can have all the progressive policy you like , but if you are on the other side of the fence on things like the constitutional issues ( brexit scot indy etc ) you are going to get absolutely hammered.

I dont see starmer doing anything more than repeating the same mistakes milliband did before him policy wise........trying to out tory the tories in england is futile . Member milliband  ( and im not suggesting this was progressive policy) saying labour would be tougher than the tories on welfare?

If starmer trys to take labour back to the right , the hard left will tear the party apart.

Face it labour are fecked. Scotland hates them , northern england hates them over europe ( and wont easily forget or forgive)the welsh will one day wake up , and southern england outside london literally has little time for them.

I can't see how they regain power , and every political commentator i read says they can only do it by coalition. Four years though , i admit is a long time in the wilderness so we will see.

The trouble is that every government gets jaded, or the young dogs get above themselves . It happens every time - it might even happen with the SNP.  The electorate is fickle. We have had really strong governments but the worms eventually turn. If for any reason including I'll health BJ fails, let's face it the economy is in for a very rough ride in the next 12 months, there will be calls for change. Some simply don't have any patience and can't wait for tomorrow's riches.

You more or less described every Tory govt going way back, you know, like when they stabbed your hero Thatcher in the back.

A lot of Tory faithful stuck with Major even though he walked over her political corpse, but I guess that's how they do things in the party, and I guess folks like it. And Blair and Starmer copied that rulebook.

Corbyn tried to stay blindly loyal and faithful, the problem is that McDonnell was an idiot, and you can't cure stupid twots like him of stupid.

[T00ts]

almost certainly be similar basic policy .

Why do labour supporters keep doing this thing about policy?

Corbyn proved in 2017 , and 2019 , you can have all the progressive policy you like , but if you are on the other side of the fence on things like the constitutional issues ( brexit scot indy etc ) you are going to get absolutely hammered.

I dont see starmer doing anything more than repeating the same mistakes milliband did before him policy wise........trying to out tory the tories in england is futile . Member milliband  ( and im not suggesting this was progressive policy) saying labour would be tougher than the tories on welfare?

If starmer trys to take labour back to the right , the hard left will tear the party apart.

Face it labour are fecked. Scotland hates them , northern england hates them over europe ( and wont easily forget or forgive)the welsh will one day wake up , and southern england outside london literally has little time for them.

I can't see how they regain power , and every political commentator i read says they can only do it by coalition. Four years though , i admit is a long time in the wilderness so we will see.

The trouble is that every government gets jaded, or the young dogs get above themselves . It happens every time - it might even happen with the SNP.  The electorate is fickle. We have had really strong governments but the worms eventually turn. If for any reason including I'll health BJ fails, let's face it the economy is in for a very rough ride in the next 12 months, there will be calls for change. Some simply don't have any patience and can't wait for tomorrow's riches.

[Good old]

It's not a case of my not being able to read , as much as confusion on your part.
I was responding to your last reference to what I had to say, which was  about Labours chances in England .

much as it pains me to say , the two countries are entertwined.( for now)

Starmer needs to win in places like scotland wales and northern england , not at prime ministers questions. Im simply pointing out he has teken labour backward further than corbyn in scotland.

If Labour have closed to 12 seats in England, then that is an improvement on the GE, is it not?

its uk wide , my mistake.

Labour were 28 % ahead in the polls uk wide in the final years of the last decade and more long tory government . I can't see lacklustre starmer emulating blair in 1997 can you?

I didint like blair , but he was a far superior politician to what starmer will ever be .

Still its going to be fun to watch.

By the way , blair won control of westminster because he won in england . While starmer is not looked upon that favourably in  scotland , his anti democratic baggage is with the english voter.

Somehow i can't see him emulating blair.

There isn't much there I could disagree with, so I won't.  Blair , was a better Politician, than most ,yet not infallible, as history will show. The near  future is going to be difficult which ever way the politics goes. Let's hope the current crop of all persuasions can keep on top of it, and let's hope it's fun to watch ,Thomas,.

[Thomas]

almost certainly be similar basic policy .

Why do labour supporters keep doing this thing about policy?

Corbyn proved in 2017 , and 2019 , you can have all the progressive policy you like , but if you are on the other side of the fence on things like the constitutional issues ( brexit scot indy etc ) you are going to get absolutely hammered.

I dont see starmer doing anything more than repeating the same mistakes milliband did before him policy wise........trying to out tory the tories in england is futile . Member milliband  ( and im not suggesting this was progressive policy) saying labour would be tougher than the tories on welfare?

If starmer trys to take labour back to the right , the hard left will tear the party apart.

Face it labour are fecked. Scotland hates them , northern england hates them over europe ( and wont easily forget or forgive)the welsh will one day wake up , and southern england outside london literally has little time for them.

I cant see how they regain power , and every political commentator i read says they can only do it by coalition. Four years though , i admit is a long time in the wilderness so we will see.

[Thomas]

It's not a case of my not being able to read , as much as confusion on your part.
I was responding to your last reference to what I had to say, which was  about Labours chances in England .

much as it pains me to say , the two countries are entertwined.( for now)

Starmer needs to win in places like scotland wales and northern england , not at prime ministers questions. Im simply pointing out he has teken labour backward further than corbyn in scotland.

If Labour have closed to 12 seats in England, then that is an improvement on the GE, is it not?

its uk wide , my mistake.

Labour were 28 % ahead in the polls uk wide in the final years of the last decade and more long tory government . I can't see lacklustre starmer emulating blair in 1997 can you?

I didint like blair , but he was a far superior politician to what starmer will ever be .

Still its going to be fun to watch.

By the way , blair won control of westminster because he won in england . While starmer is not looked upon that favourably in  scotland , his anti democratic baggage is with the english voter.

Somehow i can't see him emulating blair.

[Good old]

Is that your way of saying Starmer , hasn't gone backwards?.

can't you read?

Corbyn had labour on 19 % , and starmer has them down to 17% in scotland. In what way is that not going backwards?

The last blairite to lead labour in scotland at the general election for your parliament was murphy under milliband , who proceeded to lose 40 of labours previous 41 seats ,  back in 2015.

Wurzel then somewhat recovered the labour vote to around 27 % if i remember , before taking them down to around 19% last november. Starmer has gone a bit better  and dropped them further.

Still you spin things all you like.

It's not a case of my not being able to read , as much as confusion on your part.
I was responding to your last reference to what I had to say, which was  about Labours chances in England . Still as you shovel out such a vast amount of your  anti Labour opinion, I can understand how you get confused.
I make no references to Scotland, up to now as you do enough of that.
What I will say is that as far as Westminster is concerned  Scotland's is a lose to Labour, that is obvious. And if it's to be independent then Scotland ,is lost to Westminster.
If Labour have closed to 12 seats in England, then that is an improvement on the GE, is it not? 
This is in answer to  another of your posts. Sturgeon,s performance in Scotland is based on the call for IS washed down with a liberal dose of centre left policy. What she does or achieves , with  regard to turning Boris ,over is not comparable to Starmer,s  position in dealing with Boris, or his efforts to shift  the Tories with what would almost certainly be similar basic policy .

[Borg Refinery]

If today's performance at PMQs is anything to go by, Johnson has lost the dressing room...

(PS: just wanted to bring in a football expression for anyone who's going to miss their aging Sky pundits...)

But that shouldn't be very difficult, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

The atmosphere of the commons is generally so juvenile these days that it's hard to tell who is more or less childish.

[Thomas]

Absolutely correct. It's the Joe Biden strategy basically, keep your mouth shut and don't reveal anything..let Bojo hang himself.

christ are labour still sending their benchwarming talent over to yank land to learn from the democrats?

Most people want to learn form the best , labour learn from the worst?

Well we will see how that strategy works out eh?

[Thomas]

Is that your way of saying Starmer , hasn't gone backwards?.

cant you read?

Corbyn had labour on 19 % , and starmer has them down to 17% in scotland. In what way is that not going backwards?

The last blairite to lead labour in scotland at the general election for your parliament was murphy under milliband , who proceeded to lose 40 of labours previous 41 seats ,  back in 2015.

Wurzel then somewhat recovered the labour vote to around 27 % if i remember , before taking them down to around 19% last november. Starmer has gone a bit better  and dropped them further.

Still you spin things all you like.

[Borg Refinery]

Electoral calculus has updated to show , from an average of polls from end july to end august this year , if an election was held now the tories would still hold a 12 seat majority.

...and this is somehow portrayed as starmer doing well?

Good luck with the stay silent and hold your cards close to your chest while chasing the stop the tory vote. 

I would imagine once starmer actually does try and start talking at some point , the tories will simply trot out to the brexit majority in england little things like how starmer single handedly tries to stop democracy , as well as many other barrels of gunpowder the snp and tories are building up under him.

The waiting game works both ways .

...and labour have plenty of baggage around their necks.

Absolutely correct. It's the Joe Biden strategy basically, keep your mouth shut and don't reveal anything..let Bojo hang himself.

[Good old]

Is that your way of saying Starmer , hasn't gone backwards?.  Six months gone, four more years to go  , 12 seats promising ah! ?
No wonder the Tory bubble is bouncing along the floor.

[Thomas]

Electoral calculus has updated to show , from an average of polls from end july to end august this year , if an election was held now the tories would still hold a 12 seat majority.

...and this is somehow portrayed as starmer doing well?

Good luck with the stay silent and hold your cards close to your chest while chasing the stop the tory vote. 

I would imagine once starmer actually does try and start talking at some point , the tories will simply trot out to the brexit majority in england little things like how starmer single handedly tries to stop democracy , as well as many other barrels of gunpowder the snp and tories are building up under him.

The waiting game works both ways .

...and labour have plenty of baggage around their necks.

[Thomas]

. That's a bounce. admittedly at the expense of events as much as policy matters.

A credible politician and party leader would have annihilated johnson if he is as bad as you say.

Starmer and his supporters like you have come from such a low base you think drawing level with the war weary johnson in england is some sort of labour victory.

Meanwhile in scotland , a credible politician and party leader like sturgeon humped boris johnson and took half his seats off him last decemebr , and has been way way ahead of him in the polls since johnson was elected leader .

Just saying.

[Thomas]

Starmer barely has to do anything. Spaffwaffle is exposing himself as the dishonest, unprincipled and hopelessly incompetent buffoon he always was. All Starmer has to do is throw in the occasional awkward question and let him carry on.

I feckin love keir starmer.

I can actually see thinking about it why he keeps his mouth shut.