Facts about Covid-19

[papasmurf]

You need to get out more Pappy.

It is too bloody dangerous to do so, I am shielding until the local GP practice tells me otherwise.
The other problem is the carnage on the local roads, the tourists seem not to know how to drive either.
You making light of the situation makes me bloody angry. I have a 90% chance of dying if I catch Covid-19 and your constant idiocy does not help at all.

[Borchester]

You have no idea of the local situation. It is bloody madness practically no compliance with Covid- 19 regulations by tourists at all, (or any other regulations either.)

Sounds like my part of the world. Tourists wearing masks to be polite and a few local hysterics making a fuss over their imaginary illnesses while the rest of us get on with our lives.

You need to get out more Pappy. Get into the sunshine. Build up the vitamin D. Cheer yourself up. I am not saying that you will survive the Peking Pox, but you might at least die with a smile on your face 

[papasmurf]

Ignore her. Doctors are notorious hypochondriacs.

She is a nurse as it my wife, (retired.) My wife is like the nurse I saw this morning scared to go shopping.
You have no idea of the local situation. It is bloody madness practically no compliance with Covid- 19 regulations by tourists at all, (or any other regulations either.)

[Borchester]

I had to go to have an annual diabetes check-up this morning and is sad that the nurse who did the check-up stated she is scared to go out other than to work because of the sheer numbers of people not sticking to social distancing and mask wearing.
I can't say I blame her it is bloody dangerous here I will be glad when the hoards of potential plague carriers ignoring the regulations have buggered off back from whence they came.

Ignore her. Doctors are notorious hypochondriacs. Most of them are still hiding away from the cholera epidemic of the 1850s.

The only contact I have had with any medics in the last two years is when I go to get my prescriptions renewed and I don't seem to need them as much as before. Since the arrival of the Peking Pox I have spent more and more time gardening and have found a combination of digging and sunshine has done my diabetes the world of good.

[DeppityDawg]

sounds like a sneaky trick ducky, going round checking people tyres to get them in trouble.

The poster formerly known as Hysterical Duck Quack Quack 

[papasmurf]

Clearly a lot of folk have not been taking notice of the social distancing regulations.

A few summary executions would stop that. I had to go to have an annual diabetes check-up this morning and is sad that the nurse who did the check-up stated she is scared to go out other than to work because of the sheer numbers of people not sticking to social distancing and mask wearing.
I can't say I blame her it is bloody dangerous here I will be glad when the hoards of potential plague carriers ignoring the regulations have buggered off back from whence they came.

[Borchester]

Meanwhile, 97 million babies have been born this year. For goodness sake, get some perspective.

Clearly a lot of folk have not been taking notice of the social distancing regulations.

The anti Chinese flu laws can't be enforced so the best thing to do is knock this foolishness on the head and get the country back to work.

[Sheepy]

There are 7,811 million people in the world. After almost a year, this virus has not killed 1 million worldwide.
Meanwhile, 97 million babies have been born this year. For goodness sake, get some perspective.

If you knowingly take your car on a long journey with a defective tyre, the chances are it won't burst. Even if it does burst, you probably won't have a crash and even if you do crash, statistically you probably won't be injured or killed. Is that an argument for not bothering about tyre safety?

sounds like a sneaky trick ducky, going round checking people tyres to get them in trouble.

[HDQQ]

There are 7,811 million people in the world. After almost a year, this virus has not killed 1 million worldwide.
Meanwhile, 97 million babies have been born this year. For goodness sake, get some perspective.

If you knowingly take your car on a long journey with a defective tyre, the chances are it won't burst. Even if it does burst, you probably won't have a crash and even if you do crash, statistically you probably won't be injured or killed. Is that an argument for not bothering about tyre safety?

[Sheepy]

There are 7,811 million people in the world. After almost a year, this virus has not killed 1 million worldwide.
Meanwhile, 97 million babies have been born this year. For goodness sake, get some perspective.

Ooh Barry, does the wife know you are sounding masterful.

[DeppityDawg]

I really don't know how to answer you. You have maintained all along as far as I can remember, that there should be no lockdowns and the economy should be the priority, but I just don't know how many deaths would be acceptable. Perhaps you live somewhere where the virus hasn't arrived yet, but my experience is quite different. I know of a number who have had it, both acquaintances and friends, some have recovered, some are into what looks like long Covid and some didn't come out of hospital. It's true those are older than me, but others still suffering are much younger.

We live in a culture that no longer values age, unless it's a direct family member, but to say the virus is not impacting the young is not always true. It seems to have hit the elderly first it's true, but I think we might see that it will have a health impact on many of the young as well, certainly those over 20. That is the problem. We don't know. We are protecting all the members of society from the illness but we can't protect the economy too. Once the virus is properly understood we may be able to move forward and then things will need to adjust. Otherwise you are right people like your girl will really suffer but we can only deal with things in order. I would not want to write off your daughter's future anymore than I would hope anyone would write off mine.

Life is harsh. I carried my business through two recessions where it was touch and go each time. I thought the second one would kill me. I do understand how tough it can get. My own children are feeling the impact of the uncertainty. These are tough times. Like I wrote at the beginning I don't know the answer.

No, I have never said there should be "no lockdown", I have cast serious doubt over the policy and suggested that a lockdown for the most at risk coupled with a social distancing policy which would have allowed the economy to at least keep functioning may have been a better response and I believe would have done far less damage - I also raised the issue of non CV-19 deaths and the repercussions of "lockdown" and the consequent social and economic damage - and I have been shown to be right. Here is the Lancet report on the impact on Cancer patients alone

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2045(20)30388-0/fulltext

This is just the impact on cancer patients. Many other diseases and conditions are going undiagnosed and untreated due to the reaction to and measures being implemented for Coronavirus. Then there is the issue of statistics and mis-reported deaths which have slewed the perception - people who may have been tested for the disease dying of other causes, yet being reported as dying from CV-19. Then there is the issue of alcohol and or drug abuse and domestic violence, a subject you and I have discussed before. You don't need a lockdown to know how bad domestic violence can be, but a lockdown has made the issue immeasurably worse for many people.

Then the fear factor - the disease has been made out to be so deadly that people are refusing to go back to work, further exacerbating the impact of lockdown and costing yet more jobs and livelihoods

Like Barry says, how many wards in your local hospital have CV-19 cases in ITC or on ventilators? How many of the "Nightingale Hospitals" are currently being used? What about the wastefulness? What about the testing fiasco?

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-lockdown-may-have-indirectly-caused-16-000-excess-deaths-study-12044923

There are reports suggesting that the measures to combat CV-19 are killing nearly as many people as the disease itself - I said all these things in April and was told to shut up, and that I didn't care.

By the time we "understand the virus" Toots, it will be too late. It is already too late for many, many people.

[Barry]

There are 7,811 million people in the world. After almost a year, this virus has not killed 1 million worldwide.
Meanwhile, 97 million babies have been born this year. For goodness sake, get some perspective.

[T00ts]

I was quite careful not to suggest that it was all youngsters. I am as worried about people like your daughter as anyone. Surely you have to agree that we have a percentage of the population not prepared to listen to reason or instruction? We are not where we are just because of government action. It's the easiest thing possible to blame whoever the leaders of the day are. If Corbyn had the job he would have had the same advice, the same sort of people bending his ear and he might even have caught it and died. It's too simple to say that a different man in the hot seat would have done any better. Not only that he would have been dealing with the same people in the street. Perhaps his left wing might have brought to troops into the streets for all I know.

Coming back to your daughter's plight though, it's time we all pull together for their sakes and that is where it is all falling apart. If stopping people mixing doesn't slow the virus down it will  be a nightmare. Just because we have avoided it so far doesn't mean it's a myth.

Toots, we were young once, weren't we? The young have always wanted a good time. When else can they have that unless its in their 20s, before they inherit all the responsibilities of adulthood. This generation (ok the perception is they are snowflakes and they've been cosseted, but that's another issue) are going straight from childhood, through a crisis, to a broken future because the older generation cannot accept any risk - who is really the cosseted generation here? Is an 0.1% mortality rate (concentrated among people who already have a limited life expectancy) really so bad that the whole economy has to be crippled and millions of futures retarded or destroyed?

This disease has a miniscule impact on the young, yet they are being made to pay the price - it simply is not fair. Yes, those most at risk should be protected, but they should also understand that this protection is for THEIR benefit, and yet younger people are being expected to make this sacrifice - where is the payback going to come from Toots? Who is going to resurrect their futures when all this is over - these are years they will not get back. Because you know what will happen as well as I do. The "Market" will be left to correct itself when all this is over, just as it as always is, and they will be left to sink or swim on its currents, while the older generation whinge and crib about reduced benefits and having to paying more taxes

I don't know a single person who has had this "disease". No one I know does either. The young are angry, and I don't blame them. They are being shafted

I really don't know how to answer you. You have maintained all along as far as I can remember, that there should be no lockdowns and the economy should be the priority, but I just don't know how many deaths would be acceptable. Perhaps you live somewhere where the virus hasn't arrived yet, but my experience is quite different. I know of a number who have had it, both acquaintances and friends, some have recovered, some are into what looks like long Covid and some didn't come out of hospital. It's true those are older than me, but others still suffering are much younger.

We live in a culture that no longer values age, unless it's a direct family member, but to say the virus is not impacting the young is not always true. It seems to have hit the elderly first it's true, but I think we might see that it will have a health impact on many of the young as well, certainly those over 20. That is the problem. We don't know. We are protecting all the members of society from the illness but we can't protect the economy too. Once the virus is properly understood we may be able to move forward and then things will need to adjust. Otherwise you are right people like your girl will really suffer but we can only deal with things in order. I would not want to write off your daughter's future anymore than I would hope anyone would write off mine.

Life is harsh. I carried my business through two recessions where it was touch and go each time. I thought the second one would kill me. I do understand how tough it can get. My own children are feeling the impact of the uncertainty. These are tough times. Like I wrote at the beginning I don't know the answer.

[DeppityDawg]

We are English, what do you expect?

*****[splutters coffee all over screen]*****

What?

I'm a woman -- what do you expect?

[DeppityDawg]

I was quite careful not to suggest that it was all youngsters. I am as worried about people like your daughter as anyone. Surely you have to agree that we have a percentage of the population not prepared to listen to reason or instruction? We are not where we are just because of government action. It's the easiest thing possible to blame whoever the leaders of the day are. If Corbyn had the job he would have had the same advice, the same sort of people bending his ear and he might even have caught it and died. It's too simple to say that a different man in the hot seat would have done any better. Not only that he would have been dealing with the same people in the street. Perhaps his left wing might have brought to troops into the streets for all I know.

Coming back to your daughter's plight though, it's time we all pull together for their sakes and that is where it is all falling apart. If stopping people mixing doesn't slow the virus down it will  be a nightmare. Just because we have avoided it so far doesn't mean it's a myth.

Toots, we were young once, weren't we? The young have always wanted a good time. When else can they have that unless its in their 20s, before they inherit all the responsibilities of adulthood. This generation (ok the perception is they are snowflakes and they've been cosseted, but that's another issue) are going straight from childhood, through a crisis, to a broken future because the older generation cannot accept any risk - who is really the cosseted generation here? Is an 0.1% mortality rate (concentrated among people who already have a limited life expectancy) really so bad that the whole economy has to be crippled and millions of futures retarded or destroyed?

This disease has a miniscule impact on the young, yet they are being made to pay the price - it simply is not fair. Yes, those most at risk should be protected, but they should also understand that this protection is for THEIR benefit, and yet younger people are being expected to make this sacrifice - where is the payback going to come from Toots? Who is going to resurrect their futures when all this is over - these are years they will not get back. Because you know what will happen as well as I do. The "Market" will be left to correct itself when all this is over, just as it as always is, and they will be left to sink or swim on its currents, while the older generation whinge and crib about reduced benefits and having to paying more taxes

I don't know a single person who has had this "disease". No one I know does either. The young are angry, and I don't blame them. They are being shafted