Homeopaths

[Baron von Lotsov]

Not exactly scientific, is it?

Thought you were the one who wanted proper research backed evidence...

It bloody well is.



What is not scientific is believing other people on trust.

[patman post]

Try it yourself. When at a pub, tell your mates you have just dropped a tab of LSD into their pint of beer they have just drunk and take notes and report back.

Not exactly scientific, is it?

Thought you were the one who wanted proper research backed evidence...

[Baron von Lotsov]

Research says you're wrong. Some studies show that there are actual physical changes that occur with the placebo effect. For instance, some studies have documented an increase in the body's production of endorphins, one of the body's natural pain relievers.

In another study, people were given a placebo and told it was a stimulant. After taking the pill, some of them had their pulse rate speed up, their blood pressure increase, and their reaction speed improved. When people were given the same pill and told it was to help them get to sleep, some experienced getting to sleep easier.

I see no reason why it shouldn't be the same when feeding people extracts of gooseberries, lettuce leaves, chalk, etc, diluted millions of times in pure water, and telling them it will relieve their conditions.

Doesn't mean Homeopathy is doing anything other than riding on the coattails of an existing effect — especially as no study has shown Homeopathy to be any more successful than Placebos...

Try it yourself. When at a pub, tell your mates you have just dropped a tab of LSD into their pint of beer they have just drunk and take notes and report back.

[patman post]

The placebo effect does not cure you. What you are paying for is bullshit. You believe you have bought a medicine when you have not. The placebo effect is a part of the scientific method to remove bias, because subjective views can alter according to what you think you have done. It is not real relief any more than it is when you have been conned but have yet to find out that you have. You might be happy with a product by thinking it is one thing, only to find out later on it is not.

Research says you're wrong. Some studies show that there are actual physical changes that occur with the placebo effect. For instance, some studies have documented an increase in the body's production of endorphins, one of the body's natural pain relievers.

In another study, people were given a placebo and told it was a stimulant. After taking the pill, some of them had their pulse rate speed up, their blood pressure increase, and their reaction speed improved. When people were given the same pill and told it was to help them get to sleep, some experienced getting to sleep easier.

I see no reason why it shouldn't be the same when feeding people extracts of gooseberries, lettuce leaves, chalk, etc, diluted millions of times in pure water, and telling them it will relieve their conditions.

Doesn't mean Homeopathy is doing anything other than riding on the coattails of an existing effect — especially as no study has shown Homeopathy to be any more successful than Placebos...

[Baron von Lotsov]

So you dismiss the placebo effect?

And some pubs do offer zero or low alcohol beer, so serving short measures could be an offence...

The placebo effect does not cure you. What you are paying for is bullshit. You believe you have bought a medicine when you have not. The placebo effect is a part of the scientific method to remove bias, because subjective views can alter according to what you think you have done. It is not real relief any more than it is when you have been conned but have yet to find out that you have. You might be happy with a product by thinking it is one thing, only to find out later on it is not.

[patman post]

How does it bring comfort considering it does not actually do anything to alleviate the problem which is the cause of the discomfort?



Surely you mean that homeopaths have successfully lied to these people and hence they believe it does do something.



Actually that last point is technically illegal because it is false marketing. You would complain if you got short measures in a pub. What if the beer had zero alcohol?

So you dismiss the placebo effect?

And some pubs do offer zero or low alcohol beer, so serving short measures could be an offence...

[Baron von Lotsov]

Using Homeopathy, etc, alongside accepted conventional medicine might bring some comfort, so need not be all bad...

How does it bring comfort considering it does not actually do anything to alleviate the problem which is the cause of the discomfort?



Surely you mean that homeopaths have successfully lied to these people and hence they believe it does do something.



Actually that last point is technically illegal because it is false marketing. You would complain if you got short measures in a pub. What if the beer had zero alcohol?

[patman post]

Faith and Religion and Spiritual Healing are not necessarily dangerous. But promoting Homeopathy instead of proved medical practices can be both criminal and harmful.

Using Homeopathy, etc, alongside accepted conventional medicine might bring some comfort, so need not be all bad...

[Baron von Lotsov]

That's my point, you can't overdose on these "drugs" because there is no drug, might as well chew on chalk.

Yes indeed. I thought for a moment you were a homeopath advocating their safety. It's a common claim.

[Baron von Lotsov]

By the way, a little story of the other day goes as follows. I normally use organic shampoo. It's a whole load more expensive than the normal stuff, but the other day I ran out, and in desperation i pulled out this shampoo that my woman uses, and it is made by Clairol. It said herbal shampoo, and I thought, I'm going to either risk going around smelling like a woman or ditch it and end up with dirty hair. Anyhow i tried it out and a few hour's later i started to get a nasty headache. I suppose you could put it down to the placebo effect, but I honestly did not expect this to happen on this occasion. I was not even thinking about it when this headache started to come on. I have also found in the past i get the same nasty headache from cheap perfumes, and so it is reasonable to guess that the problem is something to do with synthetic perfumes. The expensive perfumes, like if you pay £50-£70/bottle type expensive are made from the natural plant itself, so if it is rose it will have rose in it, not a synthetic chemical that synthesises the smell. I wonder if anyone else finds the same thing. This is like the herbal medicine issue turned on its head and to do with not, 'does a natural product cure you', but 'does a synthetic one cause you the problem in the first place'. I find this true in some cases going on personal experience.



Anyhow it is interesting to note many popular shops will sell you organic alternatives to synthetic substances and some does benefit people. Well i know for sure myself that my herbal shampoo is better than Clairol's synthetic herbal shampoo. So in a shop selling this stuff it is easy for the customer to move into homeopathy if the same places sells that on the next shelf. I think the jargon marketing term is a "ecosystem" like products are part of a wider group, and cross-market each other.

[Nalaar]

Oh dear!

From the dictionary:



Would you like me to give you the definition of dangerous, or has the penny dropped?

That's my point, you can't overdose on these "drugs" because there is no drug, might as well chew on chalk.

[Baron von Lotsov]

I have watched someone overdose on various Homeopathic drugs several times, and witness exactly zero consequences. Why is that?

Oh dear!

From the dictionary:

overdose

/ˈəʊvədəʊs/

noun

noun: overdose; plural noun: overdoses



    an excessive and dangerous dose of a drug.

Would you like me to give you the definition of dangerous, or has the penny dropped?

[Nalaar]

They are not designed that way.

Not designed what way?

[T00ts]

I have watched someone overdose on various Homeopathic drugs several times, and witness exactly zero consequences. Why is that?

They are not designed that way.

[Nalaar]

Can I assume that all the deniers have used these and found them wanting? Without personal experience I really don't understand your views.

I have watched someone overdose on various Homeopathic drugs several times, and witness exactly zero consequences. Why is that?