The EU triggered article 16 or didn't discussion

[DeppityDawg]

Talk about putting lipstick on a fecking pig. What is it that was said the other day in one thread or another? That some ****head would try and defend the indefensible actions of the EU, and lo and behold, up pops the sycophant from Tralee

I think I said something like "if the EU said we had to eat babies, someone would defend it". Gerry T, you're utterly fecking pathetic. Go and sort your own country's problems out and stop pretending you care about anything but winding people up on internet forums

[Nick]

Give this a couple of weeks and the truth will be out

If the truth will be out in a couple of weeks you're clearly make stuff up, unless you know things no one else knows: That's your logic talking not mine.

[GerryT]

Some more good news yet again  , things gradually returning to normal(ish) despite covd stealing the wind from gerrys sails....


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/response-to-points-raised-in-road-haulage-association-letter-to-the-chancellor-of-the-duchy-of-lancaster

I'll cal bullshit on that.

First, inbound, the UK has postponed ALL checks on EU deliveries until July. This is a smugglers paradise, you can now get anything into the UK, load up a trailer and bring it in, safe in the knowledge there are zero checks, yipee.

Next outgoing traffic, that's UK gov bull shit, it references Jan 30 to Feb 5th, ffs maybe they looked at traffic flow between 2pm and 2:15pm. The claims came from the UK road haulage association and their grave concerns. What you see here is the UK Gov. saying "no problem her, nothing to see, move along". There's been so many reports of trucks stuck, the lack of customs officials and the Gov. is saying "no problem"
More whats happening is people aren't sending goods to ship out as they haven't the paperwork or official sign off so aren't loading trailers. Even the UK gov said 50% of trucks leaving the UK are going back empty. Joke stuff.

How do UK people put up with this constant stream of lies from the people you elect. It's constant. Luckily they can no longer blame the EU, but I bet they will try.

Ask someone in NI how their imports from GB are going.
Give this a couple of weeks and the truth will be out

[Thomas]

Some more good news yet again  , things gradually returning to normal(ish) despite covd stealing the wind from gerrys sails....

"In the last full week (30 Jan to 5 Feb) both outbound and inbound flows (across all UK ports) were close to normal, at 95% outbound and 96% inbound, in spite of the impact of COVID lockdowns on trade."

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/response-to-points-raised-in-road-haulage-association-letter-to-the-chancellor-of-the-duchy-of-lancaster

[GerryT]

You're wasting your time John, the Europhiles are blinkered and will never accept what the EU is.

Nick John is pointing out that the EU didn't trigger Art16 ?
That is my argument.

[GerryT]

What was the bollox that you kept spouting about when the UK brought in the internal market bill?
It breaks the GFA you said, and all we did was pass an internal law. The EU revoke a clause that required a check at the border and you say they did nothing wrong.

Classic Gerry 😂

You remind me of the DUP Nick, Every horse they back their wrong, it's uncanny how you and they are so alike. If you remember the IMB allowed the UK to make unilateral changes to the withdrawal agreement. This broke international law as any act by either party that threatened the WA& the Northern Ireland Protocol was a breach of the agreement.

Then you say the EU revoked a clause, utter scutter. Art16 is there to be used in special unforeseen circumstances and there is a procedure for it's use. It allows unilateral action, go read it. The EU didn't invoke Art16, I'll repeat the EU didn't envoke art16 and for a third time the EU didn't invoke art16. Even if it had it would have been allowed under the rues of the agreement. Stop reading UK rag press and getting upset. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/i-regret-that-article-16-was-mentioned-von-der-leyen-statement-in-full-1.4473479

Now I'll explain to you what happened as you don't seem to know.
The EU were very upset with AZ as they were in breach of their agreement with the EU, the EU were looking for a mechanism to prevent ANY vaccine manufacturer from shipping vaccines out of the EU IF and I say IF those companies were NOT fulfilling their contractual agreement with the EU. Somehow Art16 got mentioned, it hit the press and all commotion broke out. The EU quickly apologised saying that wasn't going to be done. Since then the EU has put in place measures to prevent any Vaccines leaving the EU if those companies are in breach of their contractual agreements. That seemed to get through without any shouting from the UK rabid brexiteers.

The ironic thing is the UK was the first to threaten Art16 and did it a second time, luckily the EU wear the big boy trousers and don't really pay much heed to Johnson the liar. Look at the IMB, the EU could have thrown their toys out of the pram but decided to let Johnson jump around like a bully, knowing he wouldn't break the agreement he signed. He didn't, he put a border in the Irish sea and upset the DUP who Johnson had swore to there would be no such restrictions to trade between GB and NI.

[GerryT]

Good.
I don't want him to hesitate.
I want him to get this resolved in very short order.

It's not working as is. The Irish are rightly pissed off by it.
If the EU are going to continue to dick around then they need to be cut out of the loop entirely and the sooner the better.

The EU have screwed up.
They have lost "plausible deniability". Nobody thinks they are trying "to protect the Food Friday Agreement" anymore. No one.
No one believes that is their motive.

They have united the Uk against them, and united support for the UK against them from all around the world. Diplomatic cover and domestic will is right behind Boris if he chooses to tidy up the operation of this agreement. Or even it's cancellation if the EU don't step lively.

We're not going to war in Ireland again for these idiots.
They will buck their ideas up or they are out of our country and they will have to sort their own mess out with Southern Ireland on their own.

What your not recognising or your choosing to ignore is the issue of NI has been a problem from day 1. The UK decided to brexit and there was zero thought to how the NI issue would be resolved. The UK decided or Johnson decided the best way forward was a border in the Irish sea down the middle of the UK, you think Johnson is going to change that, I don't, he lied his way through his career and he's staying true to form. All we can do is watch what Johnson does as listening to what he says is just unreliable.

[johnofgwent]

You're wasting your time John,

Maybe so. But I felt it was important to highlight what our own MPs are being told ...

[Nick]

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/northern-ireland-protocol-article-16-and-eu-vaccine-export-controls/


Interesting document.


Produced for inclusion in the HOC library for the purpose of informing members of both houses


States categorically the EU went no further than to threaten the use of the protocol.


The Irish News ....

https://www.irishnews.com/news/healthcarenews/2021/01/29/news/eu-invokes-article-16-introducing-controls-on-vaccine-exports-to-northern-ireland-2203719/

... categorically cited Arlene Fosters seemingly inaccurate claim that the EU HAD invoked the protocol. Which probably keep cker the story off.


In the HOC Library document it also states Ursula Wossername clearly stated the export restrictions they threatened to use article 16 to "secure" were NOT to be used to prevent contracual commitments (to the UK) from being fulfilled ...


But as the author of that insight points out, nowhere in the article  itself does it say that.

You're wasting your time John, the Europhiles are blinkered and will never accept what the EU is.

[johnofgwent]

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/northern-ireland-protocol-article-16-and-eu-vaccine-export-controls/


Interesting document.


Produced for inclusion in the HOC library for the purpose of informing members of both houses


States categorically the EU went no further than to threaten the use of the protocol.


The Irish News ....

https://www.irishnews.com/news/healthcarenews/2021/01/29/news/eu-invokes-article-16-introducing-controls-on-vaccine-exports-to-northern-ireland-2203719/

... categorically cited Arlene Fosters seemingly inaccurate claim that the EU HAD invoked the protocol. Which probably keep cker the story off.


In the HOC Library document it also states Ursula Wossername clearly stated the export restrictions they threatened to use article 16 to "secure" were NOT to be used to prevent contracual commitments (to the UK) from being fulfilled ...


But as the author of that insight points out, nowhere in the article  itself does it say that.

[Nick]

The UK wasn't consulted because the EU didn't trigger the article. Johnson has now twice said he would not hesitate to trigger Art16, first two weeks ago, long before the Eu and then again yesterday. Johnson wasn't responding in kind, he was the first, the Eu was second and apologised as the communication didn't represent the EU, then Johnson did it again. Brexiteer's and their blinkers. You don't like the deal and now your scraping the barrel for any excuse to break your commitments...again.
Why would the EU entertain changing the deal.

What was the bollox that you kept spouting about when the UK brought in the internal market bill?
It breaks the GFA you said, and all we did was pass an internal law. The EU revoke a clause that required a check at the border and you say they did nothing wrong.

Classic Gerry 😂

[Baff]

Good.
I don't want him to hesitate.
I want him to get this resolved in very short order.

It's not working as is. The Irish are rightly pissed off by it.
If the EU are going to continue to dick around then they need to be cut out of the loop entirely and the sooner the better.

The EU have screwed up.
They have lost "plausible deniability". Nobody thinks they are trying "to protect the Food Friday Agreement" anymore. No one.
No one believes that is their motive.

They have united the Uk against them, and united support for the UK against them from all around the world. Diplomatic cover and domestic will is right behind Boris if he chooses to tidy up the operation of this agreement. Or even it's cancellation if the EU don't step lively.

We're not going to war in Ireland again for these idiots.
They will buck their ideas up or they are out of our country and they will have to sort their own mess out with Southern Ireland on their own.

[GerryT]

We know full well the UK wasn't consulted.
They broke the treaty.

Let's be quite honest, Barnier was threatening to break it even before it was signed. So no one is very surprised by this outcome.

I have no probem with Boris responding in kind or threatening to enact that treaty in the way it was designed to be enacted. Offering consultation and the providing the agreed medium for the EU to address any concerns before either amending it or anulling it in part or completely.

That is the process we are currently engaged in and I am reserving judgement on how successful it will turn out to be.

The UK wasn't consulted because the EU didn't trigger the article. Johnson has now twice said he would not hesitate to trigger Art16, first two weeks ago, long before the Eu and then again yesterday. Johnson wasn't responding in kind, he was the first, the Eu was second and apologised as the communication didn't represent the EU, then Johnson did it again. Brexiteer's and their blinkers. You don't like the deal and now your scraping the barrel for any excuse to break your commitments...again.
Why would the EU entertain changing the deal.

[Barry]

Moderator Notice:
This topic split off from CPTPT  thread

[Baff]

Not according to this Baff, sounds like your bullsh1tting. In the role she holds now, what disasters has she. From what I've seen she's doing a good job. Aside from the Art16 issue, which we don't know yet who published what (but we do know it wasn't enacted). But you have no issue with Johnson threatening to use the very same Art two weeks ago and again yesterday.

We know full well the UK wasn't consulted.
They broke the treaty.

Let's be quite honest, Barnier was threatening to break it even before it was signed. So no one is very surprised by this outcome.

I have no probem with Boris responding in kind or threatening to enact that treaty in the way it was designed to be enacted. Offering consultation and the providing the agreed medium for the EU to address any concerns before either amending it or anulling it in part or completely.

That is the process we are currently engaged in and I am reserving judgement on how successful it will turn out to be.