: Johnson 'could look at' abolishing BBC licence fee

[BeElBeeBub]

Here's the thing



I have no idea how this tale came about, but I cannot recall a campaign in my adult voting life that has not had some jerk try to push an NHS story of this sort during the period of the "short campaign". Whether that be against the tories, or Blairite New labour (who went further towards privatising the NHS than Thatcher dared)



They never, ever work. They either fall apart through the story being bollox or the perpetrators having an agenda.



Frankly, they'll be saying Boris will sell off the incubators in SCBU's nationwide and leave the babies to die on the floor next.

The point this time is not that the hospital was so short of beds that an ill 4yo had to spend several hours in a treatment room rather than a bed.  This case is not special, there are numerous similar examples (in itself a scandal)



The bigger issue is the conservative reaction to it.  First we have Johnson's terrible interview.  Taking a journalists phone FFS and then his wooden and irritable reaction when finally cornered on the question.



Then we have not one but two attempts at spinning their way out with fabricated stories.



Is this the world we want to be in? where facts are secondary to click bait headlines and hot takes?



People on this forum were regurgitating some of the "talking points" put out by the spin farms that are verifiably false.



Just pause and think - "if they are happy to spread rumour and innuendo about a sick 4 year old, what else are they willing to lie about?" <cough> NI border <cough>

[johnofgwent]

Please read the response of the editor of the paper that broken the story to a reader who complained that the story was fake.



https://twitter.com/JayMitchinson/status/1204344653174181888?s=19">https://twitter.com/JayMitchinson/statu ... 81888?s=19">https://twitter.com/JayMitchinson/status/1204344653174181888?s=19



Note that one of the accounts identified as originating the "my friend the nurse" story has claimed she was hacked - which does make it hard to defend the story when the originator has disowned it.

Here's the thing



I have no idea how this tale came about, but I cannot recall a campaign in my adult voting life that has not had some jerk try to push an NHS story of this sort during the period of the "short campaign". Whether that be against the tories, or Blairite New labour (who went further towards privatising the NHS than Thatcher dared)



They never, ever work. They either fall apart through the story being bollox or the perpetrators having an agenda.



Frankly, they'll be saying Boris will sell off the incubators in SCBU's nationwide and leave the babies to die on the floor next.

[johnofgwent]

Very good point. BBC Droitwich up the road is still transmitting on 198 kHz at 500 kW and on 3 medium wave frequencies, but no one on the earth is actually listening to them. The way forward is emergency internet broadcasts, if thought necessary, direct to phones by text.

If you want to see armageddon, blow up that 198 Khz transmitter....

[BeElBeeBub]

Was he? That's information I have been trying to find. Where did you find it?

From the link to Leeds paper I posted earlier. https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/lgi-bosses-apologise-after-four-17385357">https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds ... r-17385357">https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/lgi-bosses-apologise-after-four-17385357

"We had been to the GP once and they thought it was virus."



Jack and his worried mum were 'blue-lighted' to Leeds General Infirmary after she returned to the doctors as Jack had not improved.

So they returned to the doctor (their GP was mentioned in the previous statement - so I assume it was the same Dr or at least practice) and then they were "blue lighted" i.e. via ambulance to the A&E.

[Barry]

 In this case he was referred by a GP.  

Was he? That's information I have been trying to find. Where did you find it?

[Ciaphas]

C4 and BBC will probably get the chop under Mr Johnson since they've both given him negative coverage, albeit the BBC have done a bit of brown nosing as well in the hope he'd let it slide.



Seems the BBC miscalculated.

[BeElBeeBub]

Please read the response of the editor of the paper that broken the story to a reader who complained that the story was fake.



https://twitter.com/JayMitchinson/status/1204344653174181888?s=19">https://twitter.com/JayMitchinson/statu ... 81888?s=19">https://twitter.com/JayMitchinson/status/1204344653174181888?s=19



Note that one of the accounts identified as originating the "my friend the nurse" story has claimed she was hacked - which does make it hard to defend the story when the originator has disowned it.

[BeElBeeBub]

Why? He was not at death's door and the nursing staff had to make a decision. Who put him on the floor? Why is he not connected to the oxygen if it was so essential? Who had a point to make?

It doesn't matter how much cash you throw at the NHS and A&E in particular, it needs changing. The flu has hit hospitals at just the right time for those with an agenda to knock the Government.

The mask is in front of his face.  If you have spent any time with one on, you'd know they are not comfortable things and people remove them all the time.  It's not a case that you need one to breath 100% of the time, it's a case that your O2 sat falls over time without one. This is especially true with little ones.  The point is he was in such a condition that an oxygen mask was deemed a requirement

It is you who is missing the point I feel. The NHS A&E is not cut out to be the point of first reference. There are out of hours surgeries with GPs. There is 111 or whatever it is. There is common sense. All should be used before subjecting the poor souls at the local hospital to every lack of effort by those who should make a bit more effort.

No it is not the 1st port of cal, but it is becoming the last resort because all the other facilities are being cut back. In this case he was referred by a GP.  In my wife's case she was also referred by a GP.  What should they/we have done? ignored the GP?  Gone to another GP?



Can you seriously look at the situation and think "yeah, this is fine"



Can you look at the conservative response and think "lying to deflect from the story, that's perfectly acceptable"?

[Churchill]

Different paper different story and political spin the Labour Party are milking this for all its worth..



Jacks that his name by the way according to his Mother Jack was given a bed in paediatrics to be assessed for suspected pneumonia  , but he was taken out of the bed because the bed was need for another child,



Jack and his Mother were put in a Clinical Room which only has chairs no beds, according to Jack's Mother Jack could not settle and kept sitting on his coat on the floor he eventually fell asleep on his coat.



In total he was at the hospital for 13 and half hours before being discharged he did not have pneumonia , flu and tonsillitis.



 Four-year-old boy forced to sleep on hospital floor due to lack of beds https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/boy-sleeping-hospital-floor-picture-bed-shortage-leeds-nhs-winter-crisis-a9238401.html">https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 38401.html">https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/boy-sleeping-hospital-floor-picture-bed-shortage-leeds-nhs-winter-crisis-a9238401.html

[papasmurf]

In too many decades and 2 children I have attended A&E 3 times. A dislocated shoulder, front teeth knocked halfway down the throat and a suspected heart attack (That time blue lighted). Not all for me! Anything else has been dealt with at home with guidance from chemist, on call GP, Google and common sense. What happened to self reliance and initiative? Answer - the nanny state.

Pneumonia is a life threatening condition that requires hospitalisation fast, especially in children.

No chances can be taken.

[T00ts]

The boy had been taken to the doctors twice with influenza symptoms. What is unclear is whether the mother then took the ambulance route, or if her GP decided the child needed to go to A&E immediately. I suppose it is irrelevant in some ways.



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Separately and regardless of this case, there is a huge problem with people not taking advice from the NHS, especially about minor matters and colds and influenza. This is exacerbated by ambulance staff who encourage people to go to A&E when it is unnecessary.



True story. Friend's father-in-law in late 80's has arthritic knee and calls my friend late evening. They call ambulance and they all meet up. He can't walk because of pain, but it is bedtime, after all. Patient moans, so ambulance staff say if he can't stand up he should go to A&E. He went to A&E, was triaged as being non urgent in a busy period and was left on a trolley. Eventually admitted for a "medication review" and sent home the same day. Makes a complaint about the wait in A&E !!

Why didn't he go to bed and ring the GP in the morning?  :roll:



Watch the excellent West Mids Ambulance programmes on TV. It shows the pressure they are under from minor injuries that don't need an ambulance, the drunks who call 999 and want a lift home, the "regulars" who ring 999 because they are lonely and they like the attention.

People have come to rely on the nanny state rather than common sense, family and friends.



The NHS and ambulance is a victim of its own success. Money will never solve this.

In too many decades and 2 children I have attended A&E 3 times. A dislocated shoulder, front teeth knocked halfway down the throat and a suspected heart attack (That time blue lighted). Not all for me! Anything else has been dealt with at home with guidance from chemist, on call GP, Google and common sense. What happened to self reliance and initiative? Answer - the nanny state.

[Barry]

The boy had been taken to the doctors twice with influenza symptoms. What is unclear is whether the mother then took the ambulance route, or if her GP decided the child needed to go to A&E immediately. I suppose it is irrelevant in some ways.



----------------------- ------------------



Separately and regardless of this case, there is a huge problem with people not taking advice from the NHS, especially about minor matters and colds and influenza. This is exacerbated by ambulance staff who encourage people to go to A&E when it is unnecessary.



True story. Friend's father-in-law in late 80's has arthritic knee and calls my friend late evening. They call ambulance and they all meet up. He can't walk because of pain, but it is bedtime, after all. Patient moans, so ambulance staff say if he can't stand up he should go to A&E. He went to A&E, was triaged as being non urgent in a busy period and was left on a trolley. Eventually admitted for a "medication review" and sent home the same day. Makes a complaint about the wait in A&E !!

Why didn't he go to bed and ring the GP in the morning?  :roll:



Watch the excellent West Mids Ambulance programmes on TV. It shows the pressure they are under from minor injuries that don't need an ambulance, the drunks who call 999 and want a lift home, the "regulars" who ring 999 because they are lonely and they like the attention.

People have come to rely on the nanny state rather than common sense, family and friends.



The NHS and ambulance is a victim of its own success. Money will never solve this.

[T00ts]

if you look carefully, it's an oxygen mask.



As the story points out it was plugged into the cubical supply (at about waist height).



You are missing the point.



The kid should have had a bed but instead had to wait for several hours in a treatment cubical (which is only meant for brief treatments).



The bigger story is how the conservatives have reacted to an embarrassing but ultimately not super serious story (the kid is recovering at home).



Johnson wouldn't even look at the photo and took a journalists phone off him and out it in his own pocket rather than look.



When he was finally forced to look, his reaction was one of exasperation and dismissal.



Then the disinformation machine moved into high gear with "punchgate" and "my friend the nurse".

Why? He was not at death's door and the nursing staff had to make a decision. Who put him on the floor? Why is he not connected to the oxygen if it was so essential? Who had a point to make?

It doesn't matter how much cash you throw at the NHS and A&E in particular, it needs changing. The flu has hit hospitals at just the right time for those with an agenda to knock the Government.



It is you who is missing the point I feel. The NHS A&E is not cut out to be the point of first reference. There are out of hours surgeries with GPs. There is 111 or whatever it is. There is common sense. All should be used before subjecting the poor souls at the local hospital to every lack of effort by those who should make a bit more effort.

[BeElBeeBub]

The child was asleep on the floor on coats or whatever. Bless him he was shattered. I have had a child in A&E at way past her bedtime and had to wait for a doctor who was tied up with another child. She was 3yrs old and desperately tired. I managed to get her to sleep on my lap but if I hadn't I would have lain her down in the same way. What is that plastic bag? It's not attached to the child. For me someone took advantage of the situation and made it a political comment.

if you look carefully, it's an oxygen mask.



As the story points out it was plugged into the cubical supply (at about waist height).



You are missing the point.



The kid should have had a bed but instead had to wait for several hours in a treatment cubical (which is only meant for brief treatments).



The bigger story is how the conservatives have reacted to an embarrassing but ultimately not super serious story (the kid is recovering at home).



Johnson wouldn't even look at the photo and took a journalists phone off him and out it in his own pocket rather than look.



When he was finally forced to look, his reaction was one of exasperation and dismissal.



Then the disinformation machine moved into high gear with "punchgate" and "my friend the nurse".

[T00ts]

It is amazing what some will do for their 15 mins of fame. Should there be wholesale lie detector tests?