How could direct democracy work?

[Borchester]

On a personal level when Starmer was Director of Public Prosecutions I had some lengthy exchanges with him trying to sort out a very nasty disablist newspaper editor.

Poor bastard.

I knew that the labour leader had problems but not that he had Pappy on his side.

"Now Sir Keir, eliminate this newspaper editor who you will know is very nasty because I have said so. Then machine gun a few tourists and you will be in number 10 before you can say I hate Tories."

"Blimey Pappy, I never thought of that. Where would the left be without the great thinkers like you?"

[Sheepy]

As a sworn Conservative

Oh, really who knew? I would never have guessed; do you have any other little secrets we don't know about?
I am still waiting for the come voting time excuses.

[T00ts]

As a sworn Conservative who I suppose should be happy with the status quo, what we can't allow to continue is a one party State. At the moment the Conservatives are in a so called enviable situation but it actually eventually leads to poor Government. I still believe that Conservatives have their basic ideology in the right place but all that seems to be swept aside with each catastrophe that seems to be falling upon us. It is very possible that whoever was in power, even a coalition, would have struggled in exactly the same way over the last 18 months. Looking around, the demands of DD or anything similar, on the electorate at this moment might be a real step too far.

If this continues right up to the next election what happens if Starmer gets a majority? I know the Conservative electorate pulled all the stops out to avoid Corbyn's insanity and they may do it again particularly as Starmer is such a damp squib but the thought of a ramshackle Labour Government put in power for no other reason than the Conservatives have taken leave of their senses fills me with dread.

The FPTP is being brought into disrepute but surely it also has the ability, should the electorate decide it, to make it all much closer. Yes some places are strongholds but we have seen more recently that theory thrown on it's head in many constituencies, what is to say that won't happen in reverse. If the policies appeal enough and the candidates are good enough anyone can be elected. Isn't there a danger that by changing the system we manage just a hotchpotch set of MPs perhaps with little or no experience at National/Global level? We are at a point in our development outside the EU and after/during Covid where it seems to me that we would be mad to affect another massive change by changing the voting system.

There is no doubt that should the upcoming generations feel that the system no longer works that they will decide that some changes need to be made but I feel that there is a very strong argument for making major steps slowly and with really considered steps. It is not good enough to jump on the band wagon of the current uncertainty to push change without sufficient thought. I feel we need a settled nation and a settled electorate. It took nearly 50 years to move the majority to leave the EU. We had been through all sorts of situations before that came to a head. Covid landed on us without us being ready. We should consider very carefully the timing of more big changes.

[patman post]

Given his near invisibility unless you happen to watch BBC Parliament that is hardly a surprise. The media/press seem to have a policy of making sure he gets little to no publicity or appearances.

Absolute bollocks. News is a commodity. Starmer needs to put himself about a bit. It's up to him to do something. Get noticed. Visit hospitals, schools, care homes,  whatever's in the news — he's not the PM, so he doesn't automatically warrant 24hr attention.   
As it is he's nondescript and boring, while Boris is recognisable and mostly jovial...,

[Sheepy]

Sheepy " the Westminster party ignore the voters and do what they want and like thornberry think they're thick and stupid and they decide and don't have to explain anything to you"

Sheepy "There's going to be a new system called direct democracy,I don't have to explain it to you because you're not one of us,I'm not discussing it's happening and you'll just have to suck it up"

Spot the difference?
Thought not there isn't one.

I know I will do my best to get under Sheepies skin? see how that works, when I really don't care.

[papasmurf]

I was surprised on a recent TV roam around the streets that so many people didn't even know who the Labour leader is. 

Given his near invisibility unless you happen to watch BBC Parliament that is hardly a surprise. The media/press seem to have a policy of making sure he gets little to no publicity or appearances.
On a personal level when Starmer was Director of Public Prosecutions I had some lengthy exchanges with him trying to sort out a very nasty disablist newspaper editor. (There was little at the time could legally be done.)
I was expecting him when he became Labour leader to purge the party of those who has accepted Netanyahu's bungs to undermine Labour with  anti-semitism  propaganda, which had and still has little basis in fact.

[cromwell]

But,but I want an argument about it, I don't care what you want. You are not a populist.

Sheepy " the Westminster party ignore the voters and do what they want and like thornberry think they're thick and stupid and they decide and don't have to explain anything to you"

Sheepy "There's going to be a new system called direct democracy,I don't have to explain it to you because you're not one of us,I'm not discussing it's happening and you'll just have to suck it up"

Spot the difference?
Thought not there isn't one.

[patman post]

"Get Brexit Done" fooled people into voting for Bojo-The-Clown, the Joseph Goebbels main tenet of propaganda  use short slogans for simple people.  Now they are realising they have been done by  Brexit, that red wall could be rebuilt.

Well OK, but Labour and the other parties will first have to get a leader who's known to every voter, and makes most of them think he or she offers a better future — I was surprised on a recent TV roam around the streets that so many people didn't even know who the Labour leader is. 

That, and the constant preaching about the sorry state we're in with predictions of more to come without a glimpse of a better future, makes me think Labour and LibDems are in for a hard time...

[Borchester]

I suggest the problem is with Labour — it needs to become attractive to today's voters. The old reactionary working class anti-toff rhetoric doesn't get votes any more. Many voters want to be able to get the good things they see others have in life, and are willing to work to get them.

Well yes and no.

Sir Keir seems to have twigged that bashing the toffs does not really work because a lot of erstwhile Labour supporters rather fancy becoming toffs themselves. So he is desperately trying to move the party towards the political centre.

Unfortunately, as the brothers and sisters lose the support of the moderates, they are forced to rely upon the socialist fiefdoms of Hackney, Tottenham, Brent Central etc, where the local barons and baronesses such as Diane Abbott, David Lammy and Dawn Butler realise that their supporters don't want a better life for themselves. They are just pissed off that other folk have got one.

The problem for today's Labour party is that the noble dream of the shining city on the hill has been replaced by petty spite and a low calorie whinge. 

[Sheepy]

I am afraid your continual use of the term "Westminster Party" is as clear as Mayan pictograms.

Like I care, they were only lent the populist voters until they see otherwise.

[papasmurf]

You mean the populists who voted to get Brexit done, who are about as likely as to vote new Labour again as I am to vote for the Westminster party. That is the Westminster partys problem not mine.

I am afraid your continual use of the term "Westminster Party" is as clear as Mayan pictograms.

[Sheepy]

"Get Brexit Done" fooled people into voting for Bojo-The-Clown, the Joseph Goebbels main tenet of propaganda  use short slogans for simple people.  Now they are realising they have been done by  Brexit, that red wall could be rebuilt.

You mean the populists who voted to get Brexit done, who are about as likely as to vote new Labour again as I am to vote for the Westminster party. That is the Westminster partys problem not mine.

[papasmurf]

I'm not sure any of this is behind the electorate in previously safe Labour seats voting for Boris — it's all so long ago in news terms, and is only brought up by already-convinced Tory voters...

"Get Brexit Done" fooled people into voting for Bojo-The-Clown, the Joseph Goebbels main tenet of propaganda  use short slogans for simple people.  Now they are realising they have been done by  Brexit, that red wall could be rebuilt.

[patman post]

Actually he did  not, Netanyahu got a lot of anti-Corbyn lies and propaganda into the media/press and even inside the  Labour party by paying for it.

I'm not sure any of this is behind the electorate in previously safe Labour seats voting for Boris — it's all so long ago in news terms, and is only brought up by already-convinced Tory voters...

[papasmurf]

The reason for their demise is immaterial, Corbyn was stood side by side with Hamas, something you said was made up.

Hamas is a democratically elected government, the same can't be said of Pinochet.