Free Will

DeppityDawg · February 06, 2020, 10:50:55 AM

Proof that free will exists? Ok, there is a poster on here who maintains because Toots is a "wimmin", she is a delicate little flower who requires protection. Toots on the other hand, exercises her "free will", and goes out in rigger boots and a Tutu and concretes her drive. What more proof do you need that freewill exist ffs :

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T00ts · February 06, 2020, 10:01:33 AM

~~Quote from: Nalaar post_id=15617 time=1580982820 user_id=99~~
You said that our instincts are a god given blessing, to help us through life etc.

I was pointing out (colourfully) that your instincts can be wrong.

The instincts over which you have no control have unpredictable outcomes, that may be as much a blessing as a curse.

Perhaps it would pay you to extend your reading. Others have already mentioned unexplained instincts that have importantly impacted their lives so I am glad to say I am not alone in believing that we have greater depths than your current knowledge allows you to believe. I'm not inclined to contract my beliefs and personal knowledge to fit with rather limited theories which don't relate to experience.

DeppityDawg · February 06, 2020, 09:56:38 AM

~~Quote from: Nalaar post_id=15608 time=1580982191 user_id=99~~
Maybe I wasn't clear - the process in your brain is a reaction, a reaction to information, and information requires knowledge to understand.

Also by my reading you appear to not disagree this we have no Free Will over these instincts, which is the important factor.

I've joined this conversation late, so I apologize if ive missed some critical elements. But this whole "I think, therefore I am (or am not or whatever)" is not really my bag. I don't agree with you in essence. We have free will in the sense that we act on information, impulses or reaction or whatever. If it's an existentialist argument about how these drivers came about, then you can eventually boil everything down to nothing. Nilhism. To then use a science argument, what is "nothing"? In the end, you either live your life and make the best of it, or you spend it trying to arrive at conclusions about "why/how" that are in the current state of science, still in the realms of theory.

Why are we here? Feck knows. Mines a pint. Ta.

Nalaar · February 06, 2020, 09:53:40 AM

~~Quote from: T00ts post_id=15613 time=1580982589 user_id=54~~
:: :: :: I do't even know where that comes from. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

You said that our instincts are a god given blessing, to help us through life etc.

I was pointing out (colourfully) that your instincts can be wrong.

The instincts over which you have no control have unpredictable outcomes, that may be as much a blessing as a curse.

T00ts · February 06, 2020, 09:49:49 AM

~~Quote from: Nalaar post_id=15612 time=1580982427 user_id=99~~
That may sound nice, but it suffers from a feedback bias - The person who instinctively trusts a stranger, only for that strange to rape and murder them, may have a few questions to ask their god about this "blessing".

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: I do't even know where that comes from. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Nalaar · February 06, 2020, 09:47:07 AM

~~Quote from: T00ts post_id=15610 time=1580982248 user_id=54~~
This little bit I can agree with. They are God given as blessings to help with your passage through life.

That may sound nice, but it suffers from a feedback bias - The person who instinctively trusts a stranger, only for that stranger to rape and murder them, may have a few questions to ask their god about this "blessing".

Nalaar · February 06, 2020, 09:44:43 AM

~~Quote from: papasmurf post_id=15607 time=1580982161 user_id=89~~
If you are a "pub professor." Seriously though I have sensed things a number of times in my life that meant I have avoided death or serious injury to myself and in some instances others.

I have no explanation for it.

Would you agree with me that you had no Free Will in whether or not you "sensed" what you did?

T00ts · February 06, 2020, 09:44:08 AM

~~Quote from: Nalaar post_id=15604 time=1580981232 user_id=99~~
you can not chose what your instincts are,

This little bit I can agree with. They are God given as blessings to help with your passage through life.

Nalaar · February 06, 2020, 09:43:11 AM

~~Quote from: DeppityDawg post_id=15605 time=1580981445 user_id=50~~
I'm sure they are, Einstein. But the question was, "how can you know things without information". I just told you how. Imprecise science maybe. But we've all felt it at one time or another.

Maybe I wasn't clear - the process in your brain is a reaction, a reaction to information, and information requires knowledge to understand.

Also by my reading you appear to not disagree this we have no Free Will over these instincts, which is the important factor.

papasmurf · February 06, 2020, 09:42:41 AM

~~Quote from: DeppityDawg post_id=15605 time=1580981445 user_id=50~~
"how can you know things without information".

If you are a "pub professor." Seriously though I have sensed things a number of times in my life that meant I have avoided death or serious injury to myself and in some instances others.

I have no explanation for it.

T00ts · February 06, 2020, 09:39:49 AM

~~Quote from: Nalaar post_id=15602 time=1580981085 user_id=99~~
I think this is very clearly knowledge based - Would you be able to "sense" this if you had no understanding of language or ability to understand sense data?

I am not a robot - perhaps you are. To deny everything other than stuff learned from others would leave the world in a very poor place. I don't think this is going anywhere. If your theory is right then you should be able to learn from my experience. It seems you are not open to it.

DeppityDawg · February 06, 2020, 09:30:45 AM

~~Quote from: Nalaar post_id=15604 time=1580981232 user_id=99~~
Instincts are the result of a biochemical process in your brain, over which you have no control, you can not chose what your instincts are, or how/when they will apply, you simply become aware of them.

I'm sure they are, Einstein. But the question was, "how can you know things without information". I just told you how. Imprecise science maybe. But we've all felt it at one time or another.

Nalaar · February 06, 2020, 09:27:12 AM

~~Quote from: DeppityDawg post_id=15601 time=1580980766 user_id=50~~
It's referred to often as a "6th sense". Gut feeling. Instinct. Sometimes, you just "know" something, and it's not easy to explain why. You may dismiss this. Old wife's tales etc. Not everything can be explained by "science" and mathematical calculations. Even if some posters appear to think they can. Real life often proves theory wrong.

Instincts are the result of a biochemical process in your brain, over which you have no control, you can not chose what your instincts are, or how/when they will apply, you simply become aware of them.

Nalaar · February 06, 2020, 09:24:45 AM

~~Quote from: T00ts post_id=15598 time=1580978281 user_id=54~~
I have always had a sense of who I am. I don't think that has been dependent on any received knowledge. I know that there is a core of me which is untouchable and I am pretty sure we all have that insight if we admit to it. Again I believe your only consideration is the physical scientifically provable evidence but I feel we are each capable of far deeper processes as yet unknown by science. I call it my Spiritual being which is far superior.

I think this is very clearly knowledge based - Would you be able to "sense" this if you had no understanding of language or ability to understand sense data?

DeppityDawg · February 06, 2020, 09:19:26 AM

~~Quote from: Nalaar post_id=15588 time=1580946536 user_id=99~~
What do you know without information?

It's referred to often as a "6th sense". Gut feeling. Instinct. Sometimes, you just "know" something, and it's not easy to explain why. You may dismiss this. Old wife's tales etc. Not everything can be explained by "science" and mathematical calculations. Even if some posters appear to think they can. Real life often proves theory wrong.