I thought poland wanted to leave the eu according to brexiters....?

[Thomas]

Well, if it is true that the overwhelming majority of the population of the countries we leave behind want to stay put, then that works for me.



Half of them would be back in the stone age without the money the other half are forced to give them .... so their voices dont count in my book.



So what matters in reality is the makeup of the contributors to those polls, starting with the number who just arrived by rubber raft ...

I can only report the polls and info as i see it john. What i do know  , anecdotally , as you know i am a regular visitor to france , not just for holidays but my brother in law lives there too.



I also am very close friends with a large number of french people and their families , and when i was last over in france last summer , we had quite a few interesting conversations regarding politics in general , and especially brexit and the macron leadership in France.



The french were interested in brexit to a degree , and also recognised many faults in the eu , and of course as you allude to immigration is a massive subject in France especially with all the muslim terrorism.



No one that i know or am acquantied with in france wants to leave the european union. The biggest upset for them is macron himself.



I even met an irish guy and his family on holiday from galway city and we got onto the subject of brexit , an most people in the real world outside england are simply shaking their heads in bewilderment .



I cant see the eu breaking up any time soon , merely my opinion based on what i read see and hear.

[johnofgwent]

Well borkie , theres a difference between hopecasting and wishfull thinking , and well thought out predictions based on the evidence at hand. With your track record , where you tell us the older we get the more conservative we get , but cant explain why the conservatives havnae won a vote in scotland since 1955 , i think i will give you predictions on scottish indy a pass auld yin.



Wee krankie hasnt said at all she doesnt want another referendum just yet , thats nothing but mere hyperbole.



Like you , i am all for england leaving the eu , the harder the brexit the better. However , i cannae see that happening any time soon either , after 4 years of patiently waiting.



I hear the messiah johnson is upsetting the party faithfull talking about bringing in a tory mansion tax and raid on pensions..? ::







The auld blue rinse anglo saxon brigade are going to have the severe hump with the messiah over this. ::



https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/economy/taxation/news/109757/boris-johnson-could-introduce-%E2%80%98mansion-tax%E2%80%99-shock-budget-plans">https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/ec ... dget-plans">https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/economy/taxation/news/109757/boris-johnson-could-introduce-%E2%80%98mansion-tax%E2%80%99-shock-budget-plans



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/02/08/tories-eye-mansion-tax-raid-pensions2/">https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... pensions2/">https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/02/08/tories-eye-mansion-tax-raid-pensions2/

Well, if it is true that the overwhelming majority of the population of the countries we leave behind want to stay put, then that works for me.



Half of them would be back in the stone age without the money the other half are forced to give them .... so their voices dont count in my book.



So what matters in reality is the makeup of the contributors to those polls, starting with the number who just arrived by rubber raft ...

[Thomas]

Unlikely Tommy. I imagine that Boris is just testing the water. And if it all goes wrong he will blame Sadiq Javid  who always seems to enjoy getting a good kicking.



Anyway, it might be fun. My area, along with much of London, is full of Labour voters in two million pound properties. I look forward to the resultant rallies where the brothers and sisters march through the streets of the capital demanding tax cuts for socialist millionaires  

apparently so borkie , even the torygraph reporting it...

Tories eye mansion tax and raid on pensions



Party stunned as No 10 and Treasury discuss series of levies on better-off homeowners and workers primarily in the South East of England

[/b]

Boris Johnson has been weighing up shock plans to impose a "mansion tax" on owners of expensive homes, in a move which will infuriate the ­Conservative Party's grassroots and stun MPs.



Severe cuts to pension tax relief enjoyed by millions of voters are also being considered by the Prime Minister and his Chancellor, Sajid Javid, for the Budget next month in an effort to pay for a huge increase in public spending.



Two separate sources told The Telegraph that ideas to raise more tax from better-off homeowners had been discussed on separate occasions in the past few weeks at the highest ­levels of the Treasury and No 10.



Some Treasury officials are understood to be keen on introducing what has been described as a "recurring" wealth tax that would primarily affect London and the South East, possibly as a quid pro quo for cutting stamp duty....

[/b]





https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/02/08/tories-eye-mansion-tax-raid-pensions2/">https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... pensions2/">https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/02/08/tories-eye-mansion-tax-raid-pensions2/

[Borchester]

I hear the messiah johnson is upsetting the party faithfull talking about bringing in a tory mansion tax and raid on pensions..? ::

Unlikely Tommy. I imagine that Boris is just testing the water. And if it all goes wrong he will blame Sadiq Javid  who always seems to enjoy getting a good kicking.



Anyway, it might be fun. My area, along with much of London, is full of Labour voters in two million pound properties. I look forward to the resultant rallies where the brothers and sisters march through the streets of the capital demanding tax cuts for socialist millionaires  

[Thomas]

James Melville

@JamesMelville

·

7 Feb

EU membership support:

% Remain:



Portugal

🇵🇹

 92%

Ireland

🇮🇪

 91%

Netherlands

🇳🇱

 91%

Germany

🇩🇪

 89%

Sweden

🇸🇪

 89%

Poland

🇵🇱

 89%

Romania

🇷🇴

 89%

Estonia

🇪🇪

 89%

Spain

🇪🇸

 88%

Belgium

🇧🇪

 87%

Denmark

🇩🇰

 86%

Bulgaria

🇧🇬

 83%

Hungary

🇭🇺

 81%

Greece

🇬🇷

 75%

France

🇫🇷

 74%

Italy

🇮🇹

 72%

[/b]

Support for EU membership above 80% in most member states amid Brexit mess

[/b]



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-eu-survey-italy-ireland-portugal-eurosceptic-poll-a8888126.html">https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 88126.html">https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-eu-survey-italy-ireland-portugal-eurosceptic-poll-a8888126.html



https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1225706176614150144">https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/statu ... 6614150144">https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1225706176614150144

EU & Eurozone Membership Approval



In the aftermath of the Brexit referendum 2016, there was much speculation about a domino effect. Some argued that other member countries would follow the British example. The following chart shows how many of the decided voters would vote to remain in a leave-remain European Union membership referendum. The map is updated live with the latest single poll published on the topic.

[/b]



https://europeelects.eu/eu-membership-approval/">https://europeelects.eu/eu-membership-approval/



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQKfpB9W4AEudbn?format=jpg&name=small">

[johnofgwent]

I don't think Poland on the whole wanted to leave the EU but that the Polish governments judicial reviews were deemed unlawful by the Polish courts in line with EU law . Meaning they would HAVE to leave wether they wanted to or not .

The first thing i see on google after searching for "polexit" is this Reuters News Agency piece from april last year claiming to cover the opposition party's stance that an exit may be forced on poland, against the will of the majority according to them.



https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-poland-politics/polish-opposition-kicks-off-election-campaign-with-polexit-warning-idUKKCN1RI0A3">https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-polan ... KKCN1RI0A3">https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-poland-politics/polish-opposition-kicks-off-election-campaign-with-polexit-warning-idUKKCN1RI0A3

[Thomas]

The difference being as england continues to make an utter balls of leaving the chances of scotland leaving grows. Eventually England will make it so attractive for scotland there will be no other viable option

But alas, you'll never get that beer rain.

once the empire returns gerry , they will have the beer rain on tap. Havent you heard?



 ::

[Thomas]

Well Tommy, I still reckon that if Indy2 were held within the next two years the majority of Scots would vote to remain part of the UK. I also believe that is Wee Krankie's take on the matter is the same as mine, which is why she she will tell all and sundry how keen she is to have another referendum, but not just yet.



Like many other posters on this forum, I am all for Scottish independence. But I am also for it raining beer and I can't see that happening anytime soon either.

Well borkie , theres a difference between hopecasting and wishfull thinking , and well thought out predictions based on the evidence at hand. With your track record , where you tell us the older we get the more conservative we get , but cant explain why the conservatives havnae won a vote in scotland since 1955 , i think i will give you predictions on scottish indy a pass auld yin.



Wee krankie hasnt said at all she doesnt want another referendum just yet , thats nothing but mere hyperbole.



Like you , i am all for england leaving the eu , the harder the brexit the better. However , i cannae see that happening any time soon either , after 4 years of patiently waiting.



I hear the messiah johnson is upsetting the party faithfull talking about bringing in a tory mansion tax and raid on pensions..? ::

Boris Johnson could introduce 'mansion tax' in shock Budget plans



The shock move will infuriate traditional Tory supporters as the Prime Minister seeks to court the former Labour voters who switched to his party at December's election.



It is an idea first put forward by the former Labour leader Ed Miliband ahead of the 2015 election, but was widely derided by the Tories.



In fact Mr Johnson himself attacked the opposition's plans to slap a levy on homes worth £2million, calling it a "tax on London" when he was mayor of the capital.



He said it would "totally clobber" families and the elderly who lived in high-value properties but were cash-poor, saying the idea was "deeply unpopular".

[/b]



The auld blue rinse anglo saxon brigade are going to have the severe hump with the messiah over this. ::



https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/economy/taxation/news/109757/boris-johnson-could-introduce-%E2%80%98mansion-tax%E2%80%99-shock-budget-plans">https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/ec ... dget-plans">https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/economy/taxation/news/109757/boris-johnson-could-introduce-%E2%80%98mansion-tax%E2%80%99-shock-budget-plans



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/02/08/tories-eye-mansion-tax-raid-pensions2/">https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... pensions2/">https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/02/08/tories-eye-mansion-tax-raid-pensions2/

[GerryT]

Well Tommy, I still reckon that if Indy2 were held within the next two years the majority of Scots would vote to remain part of the UK. I also believe that is Wee Krankie's take on the matter is the same as mine, which is why she she will tell all and sundry how keen she is to have another referendum, but not just yet.



Like many other posters on this forum, I am all for Scottish independence. But I am also for it raining beer and I can't see that happening anytime soon either.

The difference being as england continues to make an utter balls of leaving the chances of scotland leaving grows. Eventually England will make it so attractive for scotland there will be no other viable option

But alas, you'll never get that beer rain.

[Borchester]

So whats happened then over the last three quarters of  century?



The conservatives havent won an election in scotland since 1955 ? What happened to your older and more conservative rule over those 65 years?



You are taking a what is at best a simplistic "english " rule and applying it to scotland , where it doesnt make any sense?



My auld man was a scottish conservative , not this one nation tory pish of the modern age , but someone who believed in the scottish nation being part of the empire.



As you know borkie i dabbled a wee bit on history , and the evidence shows ,  contrary to your older more conservative and unionist opinion above , that support for the union over the last three centuries has went from an extremely low point in the 18th century , to reaching its peak around the early to mid twentieth century , from where its been falling ever since.



So the data we have and the historical evidence just doesnt back up what you say .



I have also commented many time on the old forum this strange attitude english people seem to have to this union , where they somehow see "britain" as a country , sort of a greater englandshire with a name change , whereas unionist scots and irish historically saw their nations as scotland and ireland as part of the wider british empire.



You only need to look at the last census to see this in action , where 62% of scots saw themselves as scottish nationals only , 18% saw themselves equally as scottish and british , and the british only group were in a minority of a mere 6%, many of them born outside scotland.



Remember auld jaydee who used to post on our old forum? He is a staunch reminder of the fallacy of your logic borkie , a staunch scottish conservative who wants scotland out the union.



Does it ever occur to you people could indeed get more "conservative" as they get older in scotland , but still be massively anti union?



As soon as the auld scottish unionist and conservative party in scotland was assimilated by the english tories in the sixties , their vote collapsed. What happened to all the tory voters in scotland?



They stuck two fingers up to what they essentially saw as an english party , and have never ever recovered since.

Well Tommy, I still reckon that if Indy2 were held within the next two years the majority of Scots would vote to remain part of the UK. I also believe that is Wee Krankie's take on the matter is the same as mine, which is why she she will tell all and sundry how keen she is to have another referendum, but not just yet.



Like many other posters on this forum, I am all for Scottish independence. But I am also for it raining beer and I can't see that happening anytime soon either.

[Thomas]

Yea my sister lives in Dunblane, her sons are grown up now and living their own lives. They all (4) think brexit is a mess and have an ever increasing opinion that Scotland should look after themselves, 5yrs ago they had no real opinion about Independence. Minds being focused by bulldog England.

im seeing a lot of similarity between late 19th early twentieth century ireland and the independence question then , and here in scotland today.



The old irish party spending something like 40 years winning and representing the majority of irish seats while england tried to do everything to sweep independence under the carpet and delay the inevitable.The sex scandal of the time involving parnell.



Most of the irish population being docile regarding independence until the harshness of english retaliation to pro independence groups caused an upswell in irish public opinion for independence.



Minds are being focused in scotland.

[patman post]

Not sure any of the EU members have substantial support for leaving, despite the wishful thinking and blatant lying statements of Brexiteers. Although many members see faults with the EU, they (including financial basket-case Greece) appear to reckon they can reform it from inside, rather than running away or impotently carping from the sidelines.



Interesting to see if Farage mounts a European campaign to break up the EU and, if so, the level of real support it gets...

[Thomas]

Of course they are.



They also think that beer should come out of the taps and nice girls should say yes on the first date. That is because they are kids. But as time goes by they will get older and more conservative and vote for the union.

So whats happened then over the last three quarters of  century?



The conservatives havent won an election in scotland since 1955 ? What happened to your older and more conservative rule over those 65 years?



You are taking a what is at best a simplistic "english " rule and applying it to scotland , where it doesnt make any sense?



My auld man was a scottish conservative , not this one nation tory pish of the modern age , but someone who believed in the scottish nation being part of the empire.



As you know borkie i dabbled a wee bit on history , and the evidence shows ,  contrary to your older more conservative and unionist opinion above , that support for the union over the last three centuries has went from an extremely low point in the 18th century , to reaching its peak around the early to mid twentieth century , from where its been falling ever since.



So the data we have and the historical evidence just doesnt back up what you say .



I have also commented many time on the old forum this strange attitude english people seem to have to this union , where they somehow see "britain" as a country , sort of a greater englandshire with a name change , whereas unionist scots and irish historically saw their nations as scotland and ireland as part of the wider british empire.



You only need to look at the last census to see this in action , where 62% of scots saw themselves as scottish nationals only , 18% saw themselves equally as scottish and british , and the british only group were in a minority of a mere 6%, many of them born outside scotland.



Remember auld jaydee who used to post on our old forum? He is a staunch reminder of the fallacy of your logic borkie , a staunch scottish conservative who wants scotland out the union.



Does it ever occur to you people could indeed get more "conservative" as they get older in scotland , but still be massively anti union?



As soon as the auld scottish unionist and conservative party in scotland was assimilated by the english tories in the sixties , their vote collapsed. What happened to all the tory voters in scotland?



They stuck two fingers up to what they essentially saw as an english party , and have never ever recovered since.

[GerryT]

of course gerry. Thats been the beauty of this whole excercise from the start.



Not only to vote brexit and force scotland out the eu in the process against the vast majority will , but then to rub salt in the wound and vote in tory governments again and again , with boris johnson  absolutely hated in scotland.



Support for the union is drip drip dripping away , not just over brexit , but as the older "post war consensus " generation pass away.



The younger scot is more extremely scottish and european  , and sees no use for this unequal union.

Yea my sister lives in Dunblane, her sons are grown up now and living their own lives. They all (4) think brexit is a mess and have an ever increasing opinion that Scotland should look after themselves, 5yrs ago they had no real opinion about Independence. Minds being focused by bulldog England.

[Borchester]

Why else the vote given to 16 year olds? I do hope you are not suggesting that the SNP has never grown up! Thomas will be apoplectic. (Isn't that a lovely word - so appropriate for Trump too)  ::

When it comes to the SNP and the tyranny of the b*stard English Toots, Tommy is always apoplectic.



But he will get over it.