Met caught out targetting Black drivers..?

[Sheepy]

DD has clearly lurched well to the right since any days when he might have supported Labour whilst our resident angry Scot has been a supporter of independence for Scotland from the very beginning by his own admission.

bollocks.

Let me remind you of the words of the late great jimmy reid when he faced similar accusations

I never left labour. The labour party left me.

I would say deppity is centrist and moderate , and that you think him right wing because you are so feckin hard left its unreal.

Well yes. Deppity is centrist and moderate, just like the rest of us. Unfortunately for the Labour party, everytime Steve opens his mouth a few more of its would be supporters think Oh f**k, and vote  for BoJo. 

The Dawg is working class to his very bones, I can tell by his attitude, like I can tell how he has grown up and where.

[Sheepy]

Need i remind you that you also faced the worst conservative prime minister in history , and the worst tory party election campaign ever  , and still couldnt feckin win.

What happened last december though to the hard left ? You got feckin annihilated.

So stop bleating about blairites and all the rest , you were in charge  , and you took a hell of a beating.

We lost in 2019 largely because of the issue of Brexit and Corbyn being bamboozled into pursuing a Blairite line on it. And also because of the successful demonisation of Corbyn against which he was too weak and didn't fight back enough. Our own disunity harmed us too with Blairites engaged in open sabotage.

Brexit will lose it's traction as an issue unless it proves disastrous in which case support for it will decline. And Corbyn is history now. If and when we get a new leader from the left he or she needs to fight back against smears much more effectively - even using the courts - and take a zero tolerance approach to wrecking and sabotage in our own party. We will need to empower the membership against recalcitrant MPs by mandating automatic reselection elections. They serve under the party name and should be accountable to it.

It was Brexit, lies not fought back effectively against, and treachery from within that did for us. All lessons that need to be learned.

LOL but then again the Populists told you exactly where you heading, but you didn't believe a word of it, now suddenly it has dawned once Starmer has taken over.

[srb7677]

Need i remind you that you also faced the worst conservative prime minister in history , and the worst tory party election campaign ever  , and still couldnt feckin win.

What happened last december though to the hard left ? You got feckin annihilated.

So stop bleating about blairites and all the rest , you were in charge  , and you took a hell of a beating.

We lost in 2019 largely because of the issue of Brexit and Corbyn being bamboozled into pursuing a Blairite line on it. And also because of the successful demonisation of Corbyn against which he was too weak and didn't fight back enough. Our own disunity harmed us too with Blairites engaged in open sabotage.

Brexit will lose it's traction as an issue unless it proves disastrous in which case support for it will decline. And Corbyn is history now. If and when we get a new leader from the left he or she needs to fight back against smears much more effectively - even using the courts - and take a zero tolerance approach to wrecking and sabotage in our own party. We will need to empower the membership against recalcitrant MPs by mandating automatic reselection elections. They serve under the party name and should be accountable to it.

It was Brexit, lies not fought back effectively against, and treachery from within that did for us. All lessons that need to be learned.

[Sheepy]

Something of a side issue but I can't help but notice that much of this debate has been between srb7677 (whose soul was clearly forged in the fires of socialist purity) on the one hand and Tommy and DD (ex Labour voters) on the other.

The great thing about the left is that it can always make time to piss off  its potential supporters 

When we win it will not be with their support. To lurch far enough to the right to appeal to DD would lose us far more votes than we could possibly gain, for one thing.

When can you win? Whos  support would you need?  I ask because in a number of posts you show a considerable disdain for what you broadly describe as Blairites.  Which encourages the  notion that the   left can Indeed piss off its potential
supporters .  If Labour are to succeed , they have to embrace anyone who isn't dyed in the wool Tory. Label them if you wish but don't denigrate them as not left enough. Realise that your true enemies will encourage division in your ranks at every opportunity , play their  tune and you will never win. A huge percentage of Labours potential vote could be described  as Blairite . Forget that and the Tories have you right where they need you to be.

Nah I prefer Steves take on it, going back to lying constantly to the electorate will never work again. Which is really what your previous voters are actually saying, except Smurf who ain't exactly in the real world.

We are being lied to day in day out. It s no more than a case of who's lies are focused on the most. There is no going back to anyone's lies. We live with an almost daily dose of lies and half truth. No need for old used up lies. For those that need it to be the case  Blair's legacy of known lies will not be of concern forever . As more recent lies take there effect.

Probably, but then, the Westminster party believe their own lies, all of them until caught out.

[Thomas]

It was Blair and New Labour who pursued a middle class triumphalist course and psychologically abandoned the working class. That is the true source of the rot.

Was it feck.

You dont even know your own parties history.

It was kinnock and smith who did all the donkey work in labour over many years , and struggled to rid the party of all you hard left nutjobs who were never going to appeal to the majority of the public.

Blair came in and took over the reigns and reaped the reawrd for all their hard work.

I have no time for blair like many , but trying to mythologise him into the devil incarnate while ignoring  all the damage the hard left had done to labour in previous years is laughable rubbish.

You seem to find it very convenient having this selective amnesia when it comes to stuff like anti semitism and all the rest .

[srb7677]

Unfortunately for the Labour party, everytime Steve opens his mouth a few more of its would be supporters think Oh f**k, and vote  for BoJo. 

What would you know? You'd vote for Bozo Spaffwaffle if he'd died and been reincarnated as a baboon! Lmfao

[Thomas]

Well yes. Deppity is centrist and moderate,

He comes across as rabid right winger.

and you a rabid left winger who wants to shoot tory mps , but hides under your bed at the first sign of the chinese sniffles.

[Thomas]

Well yes. Deppity is centrist and moderate, just like the rest of us. Unfortunately for the Labour party, everytime Steve opens his mouth a few more of its would be supporters think Oh f**k, and vote  for BoJo. 

or SNP.....

Scottish Parliament constituency voting intentions:

SNP 51%
Conservatives 24%
Labour 17%
Liberal Democrats 6%

Scottish Parliament regional list voting intentions:

SNP 43%
Conservatives 21%
Labour 16%
Greens 10%
Liberal Democrats 8%

SNP 66 (+3), Conservatives 26 (-5), Labour 19 (-5), Greens 10 (+4), Liberal Democrats 8 (+3).

[srb7677]

Historically, a lot of this goes back to the miners strike, when the LGBT community saw opportunity of becoming part of mainstream politics, it gave Labour a new cause and they abandoned their base for a wider vision, which as it happens turned out to be inward thinking and shrunk their base by millions.

It is not quite as simple as that. Our support for such things as gender equality and an end to discrimination against gays and lesbians long predates the miners' strike. But we were still a solidly working class party. And you know what? Shock horror! Some working class people are gay or lesbian too!!!

It was Blair and New Labour who pursued a middle class triumphalist course and psychologically abandoned the working class. That is the true source of the rot.

[Thomas]

Corbyn in 2017 won more votes than almost any other Labour leader.

He did , but that is a irrelevance if you cant become the government.

Need i remind you that you also faced the worst conservative prime minister in history , and the worst tory party election campaign ever  , and still couldnt feckin win.

What happened last december though to the hard left ? You got feckin annihilated.

So stop bleating about blairites and all the rest , you were in charge  , and you took a hell of a beating.

[DeppityDawg]

That's rather arrogant isn't it? What makes you think you speak for the working class any more than I do?

And that's a rather clever misrepresentation isn't it? I never claimed to speak for the working class, or to be "struggling" for them, I said we can form our own opinions

Fact is they are neither a bunch of clones of me or of you but a collection of millions of individuals each with their own opinions and experiences. But at least we on the left have attempted to formulate policies designed to address many of their concerns, whereas Blair largely ignored them. Higher minimum wage, an end to zero hours and faux self employment, full workers rights from day 1, the right for part time workers to have more hours, more social housing, rent caps and security of tenure in the private rental sector, more invested in the NHS and in schools, free university education, an expansion of vocational training, higher taxes on the wealthy few, a crackdown on tax avoidance by the wealthy elites, an extension of union rights to those workers who want them.

Could we do more? Of course. But we are already being criticised for promising too much. But these are policies designed to appeal to and to help the struggling working classes. What has anyone else got to offer them?

Listen SRB, our society is fracturing and your party are pursuing these fractures with ever greater energy. I pointed out a few weeks ago that a quasi-paramilitary group calling itself "Future Family Force", dressed all in black, wearing stab vests, carrying radios and who knows what else, "paraded" at a protest in Brixton - there was not a single white face among them. I said at the time, had this been EDL or the NF, or some similar group of White people, what would the Guardian or the Huff Puff have said? You go on about the unreliability of the DM and papers like it, yet I never saw a single report from the so called 'Liberal' media - they IGNORED it. Is this because its now acceptable for certain groups to behave in this way, because they are beyond being held to account by the Liberal media/establishment? Surely you must be able to understand how dangerous this kind of thing is in a society where we already have all kinds of religious/ethnic/nationlist threats to deal with? If you do understand it, WHY are the liberal media ignoring the Marxist fist salutes and the separatist/defund the police agenda of some of these dangerous zealots? I've seen the results of this kind of division, and they aren't fecking pretty - don't kid yourself SRB, there are dangerous people on the far left as well as the far right, and some of the characters behind "BLM" have a deeply suspicious agenda - this is not just about "oppression" or who is being stopped in their car

I give it 5-10 years before these divisions lead to "democratic" parties forming in western countries, including this one, to represent the interests of fractured "identity groups". How will you respond to a "political party" that unashamedly says its intention is to represent the interests of Black people, or Women, or Muslims, or Transgender, "because the straight, white majority parties cannot or will not end the oppression of minorities", or words to that effect? Who will decide what that "oppression" means when we can't even have a sensible dialogue about it? How will it impact on others to constantly be told "you are the oppressor" while examples of dangerous groups being allowed to walk our streets goes uncontested the liberal establishment? How is this going to be different from a "National Front" party of the past? How will you stop white people from then forming their own "parties" if you won't contest others from doing the same?

You don't have to agree with me, SRB - you only have to understand that many of us are becoming increasingly angry and concerned about how reasoned dialogue is being stifled with political correctness and "woke" opinions go uncontested in the liberal press/media. Yes, there are serious problems with our society, but I'm telling you now, the way that pandering liberals are stoking it is not going to stop it, it is going to make it much worse

[Borchester]

DD has clearly lurched well to the right since any days when he might have supported Labour whilst our resident angry Scot has been a supporter of independence for Scotland from the very beginning by his own admission.

bollocks.

Let me remind you of the words of the late great jimmy reid when he faced similar accusations

I never left labour. The labour party left me.

I would say deppity is centrist and moderate , and that you think him right wing because you are so feckin hard left its unreal.

Well yes. Deppity is centrist and moderate, just like the rest of us. Unfortunately for the Labour party, everytime Steve opens his mouth a few more of its would be supporters think Oh F@@@, and vote  for BoJo. 

[Thomas]

I am not hard left. There are very few genuinely hard left Marxist Leninist types in Labour. You clearly do not understand what the hard left is. Either that or you are wedded to pejorative knee jerk terminology of a Daily Fail kind. Nor am I momentum as I have already explained.

so you keep saying.

You arent hard left , you hate the blairites , you didnt see any anti semitism. What are you some peculiar breed in the labour party who isnt affiliated to momemtum and corbyn , but just happens to champion everything about them and scream bile at the blairites in your own party?

My problem also was not so much the Blairites for what they are but for how they behaved. They constantly did the work of the Tories for them because they didn't like the democratically elected leadership. Dugdale was no exception to that. As such she is an enemy of much that I believe in.

Right , so after denying any clearout i nscotland of the moderates in labour , you know change tack once more and say it was the right thing to do because kezia dugdale was the enemy?

FFS listen to the tone of your "moderate" language , and this is directed against those in your own party?

With friends like you who needs enemies eh?

But your need to attack "scum" like me is so great that you are prepared in this thread to make common cause with the Blairites to attack me.

You are no friend of mine.

Im no hard left supporter , and whatever the many faults the blairites had in labour , they actually won elections unlike you and corbyn , and the way momentum and the hard left treated many of the scottish party was a feckin disgrace.

You "ethnically cleansed" scottish labour in every way you could of anyone remotely blairite , and you have the cheek to call yourselves feckin moderates.

[Good old]

Something of a side issue but I can't help but notice that much of this debate has been between srb7677 (whose soul was clearly forged in the fires of socialist purity) on the one hand and Tommy and DD (ex Labour voters) on the other.

The great thing about the left is that it can always make time to piss off  its potential supporters 

When we win it will not be with their support. To lurch far enough to the right to appeal to DD would lose us far more votes than we could possibly gain, for one thing.

When can you win? Whos  support would you need?  I ask because in a number of posts you show a considerable disdain for what you broadly describe as Blairites.  Which encourages the  notion that the   left can Indeed piss off its potential
supporters .  If Labour are to succeed , they have to embrace anyone who isn't dyed in the wool Tory. Label them if you wish but don't denigrate them as not left enough. Realise that your true enemies will encourage division in your ranks at every opportunity , play their  tune and you will never win. A huge percentage of Labours potential vote could be described  as Blairite . Forget that and the Tories have you right where they need you to be.

Nah I prefer Steves take on it, going back to lying constantly to the electorate will never work again. Which is really what your previous voters are actually saying, except Smurf who ain't exactly in the real world.

We are being lied to day in day out. It s no more than a case of who's lies are focused on the most. There is no going back to anyone's lies. We live with an almost daily dose of lies and half truth. No need for old used up lies. For those that need it to be the case  Blair's legacy of known lies will not be of concern forever . As more recent lies take there effect.

[srb7677]

Let me remind you of the words of the late great jimmy reid when he faced similar accusations

I never left labour. The labour party left me.

That's exactly how I felt in the New Labour years.