Off topic thread (to the tower)

[Churchill]

Who are you to judge that someone disabled should have to live a basic life,worse still the suggestion they be better euthanised,this is just my opinion but you lack any basic humanity or decency.

I agree those through no fault of their own should be well looked after that is what the system is for,  if they tackled the fraud and mistakes in the system the money saved would be more than enough to do it.

[T00ts]

Who are you to judge that someone disabled should have to live a basic life,worse still the suggestion they be better euthanised,this is just my opinion but you lack any basic humanity or decency.

 :hattip

[cromwell]

Few things to talk about here.

1. people who live in the city can easily find work without having to go to the country and pick fruit.

2. Nobody enjoys having to look after old people, so your example doesn't stand

3. I have already said in previous posts that I appreciate there are some disabled people that can't work. Disabled people fall into three categories. Each one should be professionally assessed and put into one of the following groups.

 

a. Those who can work, and should be helped to find work

b. Those who can't work and need to be given a basic life, and that doesn't include a new car

c. Those so disabled that they would be better off euthanized.

Who are you to judge that someone disabled should have to live a basic life,worse still the suggestion they be better euthanised,this is just my opinion but you lack any basic humanity or decency.

[Wiggles]

I'm defending the people who through no fault of their own are sick, unemployed or disabled. And if you think it's a good idea to press gang people who live in cities to go and pick fruit in the country, I suggest you build them homes. Unless you want to live in a caravan or tent with your 2 kids. Secondly if you want to press gang a reluctant someone to look after your old granddad and feed him and change his nappies, what sort of care do you think he'll get? Are they going to worry too much if he's thirsty between meals? You cannot make people care. And if you try to you will get a poor return for the pittance the earn. You have to want to do that job, You care. And that's why they are called carers.



Ask any disabled person if they'd prefer to be sitting on their arses shitting themselves because they are doubly incontinent or working. Go and find a lazy volunteer who has a life expectancy of say 3 years if he'd rather be healthy and working. You haven't got a f**king clue mate. Not a f**king clue. You're just another know it all Daily Mail reader with little or no experience of life, seething with envy because a sick person may be getting a reasonable standard of living  you have to work for. You've got a very warped sense of values.

Few things to talk about here.

1. people who live in the city can easily find work without having to go to the country and pick fruit.

2. Nobody enjoys having to look after old people, so your example doesn't stand

3. I have already said in previous posts that I appreciate there are some disabled people that can't work. Disabled people fall into three categories. Each one should be professionally assessed and put into one of the following groups.

 

a. Those who can work, and should be helped to find work

b. Those who can't work and need to be given a basic life, and that doesn't include a new car

c. Those so disabled that they would be better off euthanized.

[cromwell]

Look, I am getting a bit fed up with this, but I do have one question. Why are you defending lazy people ?

Fed up eh?

Well tough it's a forum where you don't get to spout your unmitigated rubbish without being challenged.

[Calico Jack]

The people in question are quite open about it because (A) they don't see it as a crime, and (B) they know the DWP aren't interested when they are reported.



Some years ago when unemployment was high I would have had more sympathy, but now there is loads of unskilled labour, to the point we have thousands of East Europeans picking fruit, working in hotels, and care homes. Meanwhile the people you feel so sorry for are sat on their ar5es waiting to be offered a £30k a year job. Where I may agree a little, is that the government and employers do not do enough to get disabled people into work. I accept there are many jobs they can not do, but surely there are many they can. At the same time of course, I am sure there are many disabled people better off without working, and this has to stop !



Come on, tell us why you are so keen to defend these people ?

I'm defending the people who through no fault of their own are sick, unemployed or disabled. And if you think it's a good idea to press gang people who live in cities to go and pick fruit in the country, I suggest you build them homes. Unless you want to live in a caravan or tent with your 2 kids. Secondly if you want to press gang a reluctant someone to look after your old granddad and feed him and change his nappies, what sort of care do you think he'll get? Are they going to worry too much if he's thirsty between meals? You cannot make people care. And if you try to you will get a poor return for the pittance the earn. You have to want to do that job, You care. And that's why they are called carers.



Ask any disabled person if they'd prefer to be sitting on their arses shitting themselves because they are doubly incontinent or working. Go and find a lazy volunteer who has a life expectancy of say 3 years if he'd rather be healthy and working. You haven't got a fucking clue mate. Not a fucking clue. You're just another know it all Daily Mail reader with little or no experience of life, seething with envy because a sick person may be getting a reasonable standard of living  you have to work for. You've got a very warped sense of values.

[Wiggles]

Yes it never ceases to amaze me how many alleged fraudulent benefit claimants apparently boast to other people about how they fiddle the system. Apparently they tell neighbours, people in the pub and even complete strangers at bus stops they are fiddling the system. If only other criminals went around boasting like that, soon there wouldn't be any crime. Personally, I think people who are unfortunate enough to be ill, disabled or unemployed should be entitled to a reasonable standard of living. I expect you'd sooner go back to the days of the National Assistance Board when if miners lost their job through injury or disease the NAB came round and told them "There is only you and the wife here but you've got 6 teaspoons. Sell the other 4 and apply again later. "



As I said if you're arrogant enough to think people should have to  lose their homes and live like peasants because of your arrogant "I'm all right Jack. They are all scroungers attitude." The best I wish you is poverty or illness. Preferably both. Pop down to your local Jobcentre. Tell a man aged 57 who's just lost his job after 30 years he's a scrounger. Tell him he'll have to lose his home and his car, has to buy crap food and isn't allowed to have a pint a couple of times a week. But you wouldn't tell anyone that face to face would you? Because you know you'd get a good slap.  



And for your information, it was Blair who started the welfare reform and made benefits much harder to claim and qualify for. The Tories just made it harder still.

The people in question are quite open about it because (A) they don't see it as a crime, and (B) they know the DWP aren't interested when they are reported.



Some years ago when unemployment was high I would have had more sympathy, but now there is loads of unskilled labour, to the point we have thousands of East Europeans picking fruit, working in hotels, and care homes. Meanwhile the people you feel so sorry for are sat on their ar5es waiting to be offered a £30k a year job. Where I may agree a little, is that the government and employers do not do enough to get disabled people into work. I accept there are many jobs they can not do, but surely there are many they can. At the same time of course, I am sure there are many disabled people better off without working, and this has to stop !



Come on, tell us why you are so keen to defend these people ?

[Calico Jack]

Look, I am getting a bit fed up with this, but I do have one question. Why are you defending lazy people ?

I'm not. I'm defending the thousands of sick, disabled and unemployed people who, through no fault of their own, have fallen on hard times and have to go begging cap in hand to get the money they are, by any decent person's standards, entitled to. Of course, if ever your wife was ill, you could become her carer and get a whole £70 a week to provide for all the extra help and any equipment she needs. That would be a help wouldn't it?  :roll:

[Calico Jack]

The claimant in question was bragging how she does it to a neighbor. The exact details I am unaware of. Like I said, I see her walking her dog on a daily basis, I see the new Merc parked outside her house, and I see her other car loaded up ready for the car boot sale. You probably think this is acceptable, I don't.



Secondly, do I think somebody on benefits should be able to pop into the pub, order a big breakfast a three pints, when they should be looking for work, the answer is no. I believe somebody on benefits should have enough money to pay the rent, pay for the heating, and have enough left for inexpensive food. If we don't encourage people to work, they won't.



I have watched the film Daniel Blake already. It's a great film, and good reason why people should learn to use a PC.



Prior to the last Labour government people always wanted to work, and claiming benefits was a last resort. Tony Blair introduced the underclass. He gave people the option not to work by giving them generous benefits. He countered this by opening the doors to cheap labour from other countries. There are many reasons to lock Blair up for life, and this just one of them.



Last but not least, Jobseekers is not means tested, whilst I appreciate most other benefits are.

Yes it never ceases to amaze me how many alleged fraudulent benefit claimants apparently boast to other people about how they fiddle the system. Apparently they tell neighbours, people in the pub and even complete strangers at bus stops they are fiddling the system. If only other criminals went around boasting like that, soon there wouldn't be any crime. Personally, I think people who are unfortunate enough to be ill, disabled or unemployed should be entitled to a reasonable standard of living. I expect you'd sooner go back to the days of the National Assistance Board when if miners lost their job through injury or disease the NAB came round and told them "There is only you and the wife here but you've got 6 teaspoons. Sell the other 4 and apply again later. "



As I said if you're arrogant enough to think people should have to  lose their homes and live like peasants because of your arrogant "I'm all right Jack. They are all scroungers attitude." The best I wish you is poverty or illness. Preferably both. Pop down to your local Jobcentre. Tell a man aged 57 who's just lost his job after 30 years he's a scrounger. Tell him he'll have to lose his home and his car, has to buy crap food and isn't allowed to have a pint a couple of times a week. But you wouldn't tell anyone that face to face would you? Because you know you'd get a good slap.  



And for your information, it was Blair who started the welfare reform and made benefits much harder to claim and qualify for. The Tories just made it harder still.

[Wiggles]

Look, I am getting a bit fed up with this, but I do have one question. Why are you defending lazy people ?

[cromwell]

The claimant in question was bragging how she does it to a neighbor.

So you're basing your argument on gossip

The exact details I am unaware of.  

Really, so you admit you don't know what you're talking about........are you aware that 100000 people lost their mobility vehicles last year,disabled people who were then unable to go to work you know the ones you accuse of lounging about instead of working and that this was due to poor assessments under the new pip benefit and that the majority when challenged were reinstated?

Prior to the last Labour government people always wanted to work, and claiming benefits was a last resort. Tony Blair introduced the underclass

Rubbish,Saint Margaret produced the underclass Bliar was just her apprentice.



People who spout the crap you do,judge others on gossip and nil medical training make me less than happy,why we have hospitals doctors and medical personnel is beyond me when there are those like you who can judge someone's medical state at a glance.

[Wiggles]

You're talking a load of rubbish. Disabled claimants don't go to the doctors to be re-assessed. The DWP might contact the claimants doctor for confirmation and I doubt if her doctor is colluding her in a fraudulent claim. In fact the opposite happens. The claimant might get confirmation from a consultant and the claims assessor who may simply be a midwife or carer, can over ride a consultants decision. That's why 70% of the people who are denied sickness or disability benefits  but who appeal to an independent tribunal are awarded it.  Apart from which you have no idea how people's condition affects them.



And are you suggesting claimants  shouldn't be allowed to eat in a pub or should  be rationed and they shouldn't be allowed a pint now and then?

Exactly how basic do you want their income to be? Should they sell their t.v. they bought when they were working? Or even sell all their possessions before they are allowed to claim? Perhaps you'd ration their use of electricity indoors as well and take a couple of quid of their welfare to ensure they do? Oh I know. Let's deduct  £14 a week from their Housing Benefit  because they've got a spare room they keep their mobility scooter in. Or we could tell them they've go to move to Birmingham because rents are cheaper there. You want to try living the alleged life of ease welfare claimants have? Well try it.



 You do realise Jobseekers and other benefits are means tested? They check your bank account and savings before you get a penny? You, and many others, need to forget the idea that people just stroll into the job centre are handed a giro. All that is long gone, sick people have died, yes died, after being told they weren't getting anything and were fit for work.



 I  can swear to you on my kids lives I actually know a woman who was told to fill in a form to have her welfare reassessed which she did. Someone at the DWP fraudulently altered her claim form so she would no longer qualify for ESA. Fortunately she kept copies of everything and she got her benefits reinstated on appeal and the tribunal chairman put in a formal complaint to the DWP . But if she hadn't done that she would have lost them.



Watch the film " I, Daniel Blake." for a truer picture. And stop believing the drivel you read in the Daily Mail.

The claimant in question was bragging how she does it to a neighbor. The exact details I am unaware of. Like I said, I see her walking her dog on a daily basis, I see the new Merc parked outside her house, and I see her other car loaded up ready for the car boot sale. You probably think this is acceptable, I don't.



Secondly, do I think somebody on benefits should be able to pop into the pub, order a big breakfast a three pints, when they should be looking for work, the answer is no. I believe somebody on benefits should have enough money to pay the rent, pay for the heating, and have enough left for inexpensive food. If we don't encourage people to work, they won't.



I have watched the film Daniel Blake already. It's a great film, and good reason why people should learn to use a PC.



Prior to the last Labour government people always wanted to work, and claiming benefits was a last resort. Tony Blair introduced the underclass. He gave people the option not to work by giving them generous benefits. He countered this by opening the doors to cheap labour from other countries. There are many reasons to lock Blair up for life, and this just one of them.



Last but not least, Jobseekers is not means tested, whilst I appreciate most other benefits are.

[Calico Jack]

One of the so called disabled people uses two walking sticks and hobbles into the doctors when it's time to be assessed. The rest of the time she walks her dog briskly around the streets. Yes, she has been reported, and no the DWP were not interested



Not long ago my wife and I were in Wetherspoons having lunch. Sat behind me was bloke on the phone to the benefits office, it was impossible not to eves drop. He had his big breakfast in front of him, along with two empty glasses a pint of lager. Perhaps you think that is OK, in books he shouldn't be able to afford it

You're talking a load of rubbish. Disabled claimants don't go to the doctors to be re-assessed. The DWP might contact the claimants doctor for confirmation and I doubt if her doctor is colluding her in a fraudulent claim. In fact the opposite happens. The claimant might get confirmation from a consultant and the claims assessor who may simply be a midwife or carer, can over ride a consultants decision. That's why 70% of the people who are denied sickness or disability benefits  but who appeal to an independent tribunal are awarded it.  Apart from which you have no idea how people's condition affects them.



And are you suggesting claimants  shouldn't be allowed to eat in a pub or should  be rationed and they shouldn't be allowed a pint now and then?

Exactly how basic do you want their income to be? Should they sell their t.v. they bought when they were working? Or even sell all their possessions before they are allowed to claim? Perhaps you'd ration their use of electricity indoors as well and take a couple of quid of their welfare to ensure they do? Oh I know. Let's deduct  £14 a week from their Housing Benefit  because they've got a spare room they keep their mobility scooter in. Or we could tell them they've go to move to Birmingham because rents are cheaper there. You want to try living the alleged life of ease welfare claimants have? Well try it.



 You do realise Jobseekers and other benefits are means tested? They check your bank account and savings before you get a penny? You, and many others, need to forget the idea that people just stroll into the job centre are handed a giro. All that is long gone, sick people have died, yes died, after being told they weren't getting anything and were fit for work.



 I  can swear to you on my kids lives I actually know a woman who was told to fill in a form to have her welfare reassessed which she did. Someone at the DWP fraudulently altered her claim form so she would no longer qualify for ESA. Fortunately she kept copies of everything and she got her benefits reinstated on appeal and the tribunal chairman put in a formal complaint to the DWP . But if she hadn't done that she would have lost them.



Watch the film " I, Daniel Blake." for a truer picture. And stop believing the drivel you read in the Daily Mail.

[Wiggles]

One of the so called disabled people uses two walking sticks and hobbles into the doctors when it's time to be assessed. The rest of the time she walks her dog briskly around the streets. Yes, she has been reported, and no the DWP were not interested



Not long ago my wife and I were in Wetherspoons having lunch. Sat behind me was bloke on the phone to the benefits office, it was impossible not to eves drop. He had his big breakfast in front of him, along with two empty glasses a pint of lager. Perhaps you think that is OK, in books he shouldn't be able to afford it

[Calico Jack]

I don't claim to be an expert, I simply observe what happens around me. I have an unemployed friend who smokes, has an iphone, goes to my local pub three times a week, and has just gone to the Canaries for two weeks. I know two so called disabled people who just chucked their one year old Toyota in for a brand new BMW. I have friends with two sons. The older of the two went down the route of drugs and crime. He now has a nice little flat paid for by the state, and runs around in his car, mainly to collect more drugs. The younger son did the right thing and got a job. He cant afford to leave home. Our system rewards people for doing the wrong things, and looks after those who can't be bothered

You seem to be particularly unfortunate in your choice of friends and acquaintances. You don't live on the street shown in that  t.v. series "Benefit Street " do you? And  I do hope you've reported all these people to the DWP fraud line?  



We've all heard of the legendary builder whose claimed disability for years but who goes off in his free car with the ladders on a roof rack to work every day but you seem to attract them.



You seem to be the sort of person the DWP needs on their investigation department. I particularly liked the "two so called disabled people." phrase as well . You'd be amazed at how many people can look at a  person and tell instantly  if they are disabled or not. I expect you're one of those gifted people who can do that.  If you don't fancy working for the DWP you might be able to qualify as a doctor with a bit more training.



And you still haven't got a bloody clue what you're talking about. If fiddling the benefits system was as easy as you claim there would be millions doing it. There aren't.